this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
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That doesn't exist anywhere...and I frankly don't think it ever will.
EDIT What's with the downvotes? Does anyone want to refute this?
Logically the refutation is kind of easy. Your prediction hinges on two things. A predicate that technology will never get better or cheaper.
Both of those things happen all the time as such, the refutation is simple.
Points to our entire technological history
Vehicles aren't just one technology though, they are commodity items. Cellphones are more expensive than a decade ago, so are laptops. The average ICE car has gotten much more expensive over time. So, do you think EV technologies will get significantly cheaper quicker than inflation and the general direction of the industry?
The Chinese government is subsidising the car industry to outcompete and destroy other manufacturers. These cars are being sold for less than they're worth. This is why the EU is banning them. Its the same thing when you in wish and order something for 3 dollars. The Chinese government subsisdises the postage in China and international law means your post has to deliver it in your country.
Downvotes are due to China shills and people who don't understand reality. EVERY post about Chinese EVs goes exactly the same way.
You're just hunkering down inside your bubble, while offering nothing to the conversation.
There's a BYD stand close to where I work, I was looking at a "Dolphin" that has around 500 miles of range and costs 30k€.
That's still twice as what's in the meme, but they keep getting closer.
If you have some sort of grudge against China automakers, Dacia has its Spring. It costs about what's in the meme, but with half the range though.
It's not hard to see a future where 350 miles for 15k is a reality, but the market needs competition.
There might be such a future, but I don't think it will be too soon, unfortunately.
However, your example of the BYD Dolphin has 427km of WLTP range. According to ev-database it has 350km of real world range, about what the meme was stating in miles: https://ev-database.org/car/1919/BYD-DOLPHIN-604-kWh
Or could you point me to a source that says it has 500 miles of range?
You provide no proof of the facts you state, therefore it’s just as easy for me to say you’re wrong as it is to believe you. 🤷🏼♂️
is it hard to.. ya know... hypothetically obtain one of these cheaper, mexican imported evs? askin for a huh friend
No, you cant import it. They dont meet safety standards.
What if we elect Trump and he gets rid of safety standards, could we import it then?
No cause he's also gonna ban evs
However, you can import many kei cars and trucks and people are doing it because they're super cheap.
They're almost exclusively being imported as antique vehicles. I don't think you're going to find a cheap, useful, 25-year old Chinese EV, but all the power to you!
They sure look cheap to me:
https://boekiusa.com/inventory/new-jersey/paterson/all-vehicles/available
None of those are Chinese EVs. I was pointing out that the "anique import loophole" doesn't apply to Chinese EVs (at least for another couple decades).
Sorry, missed the EV part. True, although there is a Japanese kei EV.
Not sure if you can import it or what the price is though.
I think you missed the point again. That's only 2 years old. They need to be 25+ to be easily imported into the US. Otherwise you'll pay tariffs and they'd be subjected to the same safety tests required for new vehicles sold in America. It's only because they're 25+ years old that they aren't subjected to the standard rules on imports.
That would be why I said I wasn't sure if you could import it.
That's fair, it probably wouldn't be importable (until 2047) since it likely wouldn't pass the fmv safety tests. I just wanted to stress that the loophole that allows them to be imported requires the vehicle to be 25+ years old.
I am sick and tired of people claiming that BYD are unsafe They have crash tested better than my current vehicle.
Car manufacturers will meet local safety standards, so a BYD sold in the EU is probably going to be safer than a BYD sold in Mexico
In this case BYD lacks a local factory and their profit margins are significant enough that they don't maintain region-specific frame SKUs IIRC.
FWIW the Chinese market is one of the biggest for Volvo because Chinese consumers care about (perceived) safety.
Gotta love American "freedom" sometimes. "Oh you can buy any car you want, well except those dirty foreign ones because checks notes they're totally not up to our safety standards." -_-
Except you know, working airbags, seat belts, fuses, a firewall (as in the sheet of metal separating the engine from the passenger compartment), working crumple zones, 5 mph bumpers, rollover protection, stuff like that
Do you think this is a Ford Pinto?
Edit: given that you mention crumple zones... A Tesla Cybertruck?
The pinto was 40 years ago, so thats probably accurate. Makes sense china is 40 years behind.
And the Cybertruck was...
If you want yourself or your house to burn in a lítium battery fire, then sure, go for it.
Edit: I'm going to tag this post of mine and come back in a few years when all the stories about banning Chinese-made EVs come out because of safety issues. See you all in a couple years.
Source?
https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1013638
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/bev-are-exploding-all-over-china.299443/
https://energytrend.com/news/20221018-30074.html
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-B5sIm_JmB4
https://www.carscoops.com/2024/03/chinese-evs-become-virtually-uninsurable-in-the-uk-says-report/
https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/27/18761067/nio-es8-electric-suv-recall-battery-fires-china
Keep in mind that negative stories from China (anything that casts China itself or people/companies within China) are heavily and aggressively censored.
lmao you don't even want to know about Tesla battery fires I take it?
lmao I have a very strong disdain for Tesla.
It's an EV problem, not a China problem... Unfortunately
It's both. China's lack of regulations make a bad thing worse.
But we're not in china. If they want to sell here, they have to adher to OUR regulations. I don't understand why you're referring to China's regulations all the time. They are irrelevant.
Besides, I can think of countless Tesla incidents just our of my head where teslas started burning or teslas were driving into random white trucks with Autopilot for no apparent reason.
I don't understand why you're referring to China's regulations all the time. They are irrelevant.
I wish they were, but those cars are made in China. There's a lot that gets looked the other way.
And someone at Tesla said recently in an interview that they wanted to do a certain thing with the Cybertruck but couldn't because "we couldn't get the regulation changed on that one". (I don't remember what that specific thing was)
Aside from the batteries and fake auto-pilot, the non-Cybertruck Tesla's have a very good track record.
and you're complaining about the batteries lmfao
undermining regional carmakers
I think the word they're looking for is in fact "outcompeting."
Yutaro-Katori-with-butterfly-meme: Is this capitalism?
Outcompeting by having a nation subsidize the cost. Until local manufacturers go out of business because they can't compete. Then China owns the entire industry she jacks to the price.
It's like no one has been paying attention.
It's weird that this has to be explained to Americans - this is how much of Big Tech got to where they are, except they call it "disruption".
BTW this shows perfectly that free markets are not a be-all-end-all thing. It's a tool, and if it produces outcomes that you don't like, you can adjust it for better outcomes. The hypocrisy here is not that they pretend to worship the market then cry foul when China enters it on their terms, but that they do adjust it for their benefit all the time, and only pretend to worship it when people ask for their fair share.
While we've seen this cycle play out quite a few times in Big Tech, I think a lot of people just aren't aware of what it is. I've had friends decry how, "Uber is now basically as expensive as a taxi." I point out how Uber is only recently profitable and see people's minds get blown.
Ah, I see. So it's cool when we do it (fossil fuel and ag subsidies, the auto industry bailout in 2008, etc.) but not when they do it.
Got it.
You're introducing an argument as a way to undermine the viewpoint that's opposite to yours.
No one said it's fine "when we do it". That's not the point being discussed.
The other bigger issue here is that these new cars are coming from a region that has a horrendous track record for safety and quality. EVs when done right are still a considerable risk with battery fires, but the ones manufactured in China are much worse for quality and safety. In the next few years, as these cars flood markets around the world, it will be a massive issue.
They seem safe enough to pass the EU’s safety standards, which are much higher than the US. Also this blanket “quality issues” argument without specific evidence is terrible. If we’re going off of quality in recent history, American manufacturing is down the toilet in terms of quality - just look at Boeing.
https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/dolphin/50011 Seems relevant
I'm sorry but 1 star out of 5 on the European NCAP is terrible ! This car is a death trap !
I would never set a foot in a Chinese ....
Oh wait ! I was looking at the Jeep wrangler, never mind.
The BYD has a 5 star rating as well as an the other chinese cars I checked.
Lmao there's a guy who usually posts a long response to these "subsidies" claims bullshit, but I think they got into a pissing match with a mod in the comments and got banned lmao.
Jist of it is: China's subsidies are negligible compared to the US, and what they've actually done is created a competitive domestic market with a large number of players. Unless you think Chinese people are all puppets, even if China (as a country) owns the industry it would not prevent internal competition that drives down prices. Moreover, China does not offer per-unit subsidies on export. In fact, Chinese EVs exported to Europe are something like 40% more expensive than domestically for the same model.
Local manufacturers
You mean Ford, GM, and Chrysler who make useless pieces of garbage and also outsource production to Mexico?
Who also got bailed out by the federal government for going bankrupt back in 2009?