this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2024
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[–] Vlyn@lemmy.zip 63 points 2 months ago (33 children)

This keeps getting brought up and it's simply not true. No, your phone isn't listening to you, plenty of tests have been done. It could easily be traceable with higher CPU usage, higher battery usage, network usage and so on, but there is zero difference between having a conversation next to your phone or the phone being in a literal sound proofed room.

Meta data, people you spend time with, what you look up online, your age, your hobbies, your interests, ads you have recently seen, location data, .. there's so much about you online that it's easy to predict.

And sometimes you talk about things because everyone else is talking about them. You're not that special.

It can be a bit scary how much you can predict about a person by just using a few simple facts (sex, age, location, income, ..).

[–] Naz@sh.itjust.works 52 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (7 children)

It's funny because we've done this exact testing with the Facebook application on iOS by leaving my friend's iPhone14 with the screen locked next to Telemundo (a Spanish only public television channel) for 24 hours. (Our primary language is Ukrainian)

The next day, all of their ads were in Spanish.

So I do think additional research is needed for certain, the polling rate might be not as granular as you mentioned, but intermittent anonymous data collection like "primary language" could very likely be done passively with minimal impact on battery life, and it may be permissions-based and operating system dependent.

[–] Clent@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago

There is a lot of misinformation on what Facebook is and isn't doing. And a lot of it is pushing 10 years old.

Facebook has long had features that detect exactly what you're describing. They aren't recording it, they are fingerprinting it. The target is any ads and music that is played but it could go beyond that.

This is fundamentally no different than the way a device is passively listening for the "hey, assistant" phrase which just matches a fingerprint.

Anyone who is simply looking for immediate data transfer when this occurs is a fool. There is absolutely no reason it cannot hold the list of known finger prints and add them to otherwise normal requests. The same for anyone looking for cpu spikes; these fingerprints are highly performant and it's not recording, it's matching so Facebook can deny all day that they don't record your conversation and it isn't a lie because it's the wrong accusation.

[–] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 months ago

You make me (a skeptic) want to test this in a robust fashion.

Source some foreign-language content offline without carrying/using electronics… record/catalog the ads shown to factory reset Android & iOS devices… let the devices hear the foreign-language content played on an offline system… record the ads shown afterwards. Ensure no other electronics are present.

What else would be needed?

Done in a bulletproof fashion (probably can get some blinding in there too), it would be ProPublica/EFF’s story of the year, and congress would get in on it. Think it could be easily done for a few hundred bucks in about a week. (Thus I’m skeptical of course, such a low barrier to entry relative to the front-page newsworthiness of the scoop.)

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[–] veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.world 35 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Nice try, I'm still going to wear my tinfoil

[–] blanketswithsmallpox@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

Just make sure that webcam has a piece of tape over it...

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 21 points 2 months ago

"My phone is listening, it knows what I want!"

*Uses social media, doesn't use ad-blockers, and clicks OK to share data with 1472 Trusted Data Partners to make the annoying popups go away*

[–] PanArab@lemm.ee 17 points 2 months ago (2 children)

For “Hey Google”, “Hey Alexa” or “Hey Siri” to work your phone/smart speaker has to be always listening

[–] Vlyn@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 months ago (4 children)

This is only partially true. Yes, it's listening for those keywords, but only for them. Sometimes that's even an extra chip in your phone, otherwise it would kill your battery in no time.

Which is one of the reasons you can't just customize the command to whatever you want to say.

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[–] Illuminostro@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

And the thing is, even if you disable it, it's still listening. It just doesn't answer you.

[–] Ziglin@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Then how does Google figure out what music is playing in the background to display it on the lock screen?

I'm very happy to have GrapheneOS on my phone now.

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[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

I used to say the same thing, but now I have some serious test cases that are very, very, compelling.

As in: a subject never before broached verbally by me or my friend (or anyone I know, and I don't associate with many people), was discussed by me and my friend in the car, with exactly 2 phones in the car, one of which is de-googled (i.e. Runs a non-Google OS with no Google Play, etc).

Both of us receive ads for that subject the next day.

Mind, neither of us had even thought about that subject before, and it was something way out of left field for both of us - as in not at all related to anything in our lives, and was a complete "shower thought" moment for me.

I get there's a lot of predictive analysis out there, but you're talking predicting something for two people with vastly different lives (we're decades apart in age, for example, in very different fields).

And this ad had nothing to do with our common ground either.

I simply can't buy the predictive analysis on this one.

I've never used any of the usual social media nonsense (it always bothered me, the invasiveness was obvious - Lemmy is my first, and only perhaps a year ago and this particular event was 3 years ago), have zero social presence online - no photo storage, etc, have always kept things separated as much as I can (since the 90's, because we saw the data mining coming back then). And neither of us did any search for the subject, because there was no need - it was a throwaway kind of thought.

[–] lud@lemm.ee 7 points 2 months ago

Mind, neither of us had even thought about that subject before, and it was something way out of left field for both of us - as in not at all related to anything in our lives, and was a complete "shower thought" moment for me.

Yeah, so it's quite likely that you wouldn't have noticed the ad or thought about it if you didn't talk about it earlier.

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[–] TrousersMcPants@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I agree with you, it's crazy people still believe this is happening. However the fact that they can collect so much data about you through other means that people believe they're spying on your directly is still pretty fuckin scary.

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[–] RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Ok. Why does Instagram demand microphone access to doomscroll?

https://slrpnk.net/post/12530482

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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

I watched a Jet Li movie in Mandarin with subtitles (on DVD on my TV so not through the phone or any app), and suddenly my search autocomplete is filled with Chinese characters. Ads in Mandarin. Hmmm.

And just to be clear I don't know Mandarin and have no searches or activity related to that at all.

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[–] fishbone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's also noteworthy that listening to audio via phone microphones is terrible. Speech to text works like shit, and the expectation is that people need to speak as plainly as possible, and over a long period of manual adjustments will it get to a point where it's halfway usable.

Ever gotten a pocket dial from someone? Can you hear anything that even resembles speech over the rustling of fabric? Seems like a wild leap to assume that corpos are listening in on random audio, when the software designed around people specifically speaking plainly and clearly to their phone barely works at all.

Plenty of things to be concerned about with info privacy, but it's important to recognize the limitations of hardware.

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[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 35 points 2 months ago (4 children)

I don't know if phones are listening with an open mic, but I have no doubt they're doing things like scraping text messages. I sent my wife a text saying "I need new dress shoes for work" then went to Amazon and the front page was filled with men's dress shoes. And yes, I confirmed she hadn't searched for them first.

[–] PrimeMinisterKeyes@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)
  • I once joked about getting a divorce, in a conference call. At work. On the company-provided laptop. Minutes later, my own phone's social media feed started showing ads for divorce lawyers. I wasn't married at that time, nor had I ever gotten a divorce.
  • Got diagnosed with something I'd hever heard about before. Not a particularly serious condition, but very rare for people my age. Returning home, nothing but ads for medication, self-help groups and what have you.
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[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

They are totally listening.

I will use my new roof as an example.

back in February I needed a new roof. I have done zero internet searches for roofs, or related subjects (no searches about materials, contractors, regulations, aesthetics, nothing). My home also has no listening devices, so no Alexas or Google Homes, or any voice activated or automation of any kind. I dont even have any accounts on my phone, google or otherwise. My phone is for nothing but phone calls and text messages, with almost all the google and other stuff that can be disabled, being disabled to make it all the more creepy.

In my home, the first time I mentioned it to anyone aloud was to my grandmother, talking about the issues with the roof and how I'll have to be getting a new one soon.

The only device in the room was my phone. on the kitchen table, infront of me.

I did no searches for roofs or anything roof related afterwards, on any device. Nor did my grandmother (she half blind and can barely answer her phone, much less start doing internet searches about shit)

By the end of the day I had gotten 12 spam mails about roof contractors/new roofs/etc, where I had never received any prior (searched my emails to prove this fact, they go back years)

And every day since, I have gotten between 5-25 new spam mails, pushing every kind of roof related spam you can imagine. Despite the roof long since being done and over with.

And thats not the first time its happened either, Its just what made me start taking notice. It has happened several more times now that I've been taking notice of it.

The phone is listening, and I don't care who says otherwise.

Coincidences can happen, but multiple coincidences cease to be coincidences and start becoming a pattern of behavior and concern.

edit

THEY DO LISTEN https://www.tweaktown.com/news/100282/facebook-partner-admits-smartphone-microphones-listen-to-people-talk-serve-better-ads/index.html

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[–] Marduk73@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm here for the stinking cute dog muzzles. Id adopt all three.

[–] Raab@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Here's another of my pupper, enjoy

[–] Marduk73@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 months ago

Nom nom cookie

[–] julysfire@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This shit pisses me off the most. Happens all the time and I absolutely hate it. How do we still not have legislation around this? (Because: Money)

[–] null@slrpnk.net 7 points 2 months ago (9 children)
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[–] jaschen@lemm.ee 9 points 2 months ago

My brother was in the car with me and my wife and my brother told me one of his students told him he had ADHD. When we got home and my wife's TikTok was full of ADHD videos.

[–] numberfour002@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I was just talking about this recently on here I think. I actually had a chance to dispel this myth a bit with a family member who came to stay with me recently.

They are convinced that their news feeds and ads constantly come up with topics that would be too coincidental to explain any other way than their smart devices are constantly recording their verbal conversations. Conveniently enough, it happened several times during their visit!

As examples, the family member and I talked about how we like okra and they mentioned it had been a long time since they had good okra. Afterwards, stories and recipes for okra started showing up in their news feed. We also chatted for a bit about a specific actor that used to be in a bunch of movies, but that we don't really see them in much of anything anymore. Then they started getting ads for that actor's movies. This happened with a couple more things as well.

In the end, it was all completely explainable.

After the okra conversation, I looked up okra recipes because I intended to make some as part of meal for us since we both enjoy it and hadn't had it for awhile. Since we're both on the same wifi (and thus have the same IP address externally), those news items were almost certainly triggered by my recipe search.

For the famous actor, my family member had been watching some of his old movies on one of our streaming services that they don't have at home, so they were trying to catch up on things they'd like to see while they were visiting. It's not hard to imagine if you watch a couple Tom Hanks movies on Hulu (no that's not the actual actor or service), then you might start seeing ads for related movies that he may also have starred in, again, given that your smart devices are on the same wifi and have the same IP as mine.

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[–] wildcardology@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I experienced something different the other day. I was watching despicable me 4 on my PC and at the end of the movie they sang "everybody wants to rule the world" a few hours later I went to YouTube and on the home page is a video titled "the meaning behind the lyrics of everybody wants to rule the world". real freaky. I never searched for the song in any form on YouTube.

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[–] kahdbrixk 8 points 2 months ago

Is there any kind of knowledge or research about that available by now, or are we still only talking about the one time we sat in the kitchen with friends and talked about gay dolphins and suddenly the Internet was full of reports about it (which might have been selective perception or however it's called)

[–] Illuminostro@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I don't buy shit from any of them. I know it sounds crazy, really crazy... but it's possible.

[–] workerONE@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

My mom and I were talking about a documentary with totem poles in it, and when I got home Instagram showed me an ad to buy totem poles.

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[–] dsilverz@thelemmy.club 5 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Everybody at the comments are telling about how apps indeed monitor our microphones, but have you experience apps monitoring thoughts? Exactly, mind reading! Once I thought a specific philosophical phrase (yet I don't remember which one it was), and few minutes later a video platform recommended a deep-thought video containing such exact phrase. I didn't even say the phrase outside of my "mind's voice", let alone typing/writing it. I dunno what kind of sorcery they used, but it happened a couple of times. Fact is that the app did, somehow, "read my mind". It was this video platform only, I didn't see other apps doing the same outside of recommending/showing things spoken near the mic or written somewhere.

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