this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
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Which will probably be never.

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[–] CrystalRainwater@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Imo just use something else. If your build system is really simple just write the Makefiles yourself. If the build system tho needs to be really complex I would use something like meson or scons (Having worked on some gigantic fully GNU make build systems it can get pretty out of hand).

This is all a personal preference thing but cmake in my experience is really non intuitive and a pain to debug. I know it works for a lot of people but I definitely prefer particularly like scons since its python I have a bit easier time understanding what's happening.

If you really need to use cmake, use a debugger like another user commented. There's also a GNU make debugger in case you need to debug makefiles

[–] Asudox@lemmy.world 39 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

I mean, all cmake does is run some commands for you. You not understanding cmake errors (mostly) means you don't understand the errors given to you by the C/C++ compiler.

[–] jupyter_rain@discuss.tchncs.de 43 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Partly, yes. But I also think their documentation is a bit hard do read. Maybe this will get better with time.

[–] Asudox@lemmy.world 44 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] 30p87 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I use distcc, and do not have to take vacation for my programs to finish compiling.

[–] Asudox@lemmy.world 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

If it means my code won't panic out of nowhere and cause a disaster for me, I am willing to "take a vacation" for my program to finish compiling.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 10 points 4 weeks ago

Maybe this will get better with time.

Yes, just give it a few more decades.

[–] paperplane@lemmy.world 25 points 4 weeks ago

CMake can also emit its own errors during the configure step though, particularly if you have complicated build logic and/or lots of external packages.

[–] aaaaaaaaargh 33 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Did you know that there is a debugger in Jetbrains CLion (and I think VS as well) that allows you to step through your CMake scripts? As ridiculous as this may seem, actually it is really useful.

[–] jupyter_rain@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Even in VS? Nice, gonna check that out.

[–] aaaaaaaaargh 10 points 4 weeks ago

Yeah, I wasn't aware of that until I found this article claiming it to be available.

[–] KindaABigDyl@programming.dev 29 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

Life is and will always be better writing your own Makefiles. It's literally so easy. I do not get the distaste. Cmake is arcane magic. Bazel is practically written in runes. Makefile is a just a glorified build script, but where you don't have to use a bunch of if statements to avoid building everything each time.

[–] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 16 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

really anyone worth their salt should write perl code to generate makefiles depending on the phase of the moon and if you sacrificed a $chicken, a @chicken, or a %chicken at runtime.

[–] leggettc18@programming.dev 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

That works until you need to support Visual Studio or Xcode. Then you either maintain their stuff manually too, or you get CMake to generate all three. I don’t love it but it solves the problem it’s meant to solve. The issue is people using it when they don’t need to.

[–] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 weeks ago

Xcode implies MacOS, you can use make there too, just beware that some commandline tools take different arguments on BSDs.

[–] Hack3900@lemy.lol 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm not familiar with either why can't you use Make with VS or Xcode? Can you not set them up to have whatever build bind call Make ?

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[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

It's one of those massively elegant concepts of the past that's become unfashionable to learn pretty much just do to time and ubiquity.

[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Manual makefiles don't scale though and you end up needing some other bootstrap framework pretty quick.

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[–] WormFood@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

this is fine until you need autotools which is worse than cmake

[–] thenextguy@lemmy.world 25 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Grab a brush and put a little cmakeup.

[–] ripcord@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Wrong class, you'll need cbrush.

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[–] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 14 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Thanks for the laugh.

That was also my experience, but it ended when I stopped using cmake.

I'm not mad at anyone for using cmake, but I consider myself blessed on each day that I don't have to collaborate with them (on cmake).

Which is weird, because someone will have to pry a Makefile from my cold dead hands, someday.

[–] xep@fedia.io 12 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

The C in Cmake maybe stands for cat. It would make sense.

[–] leggettc18@programming.dev 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

In case anyone wants to know the actual answer, it stands for cross platform make, and my understanding is that it’s for generating build project files for various development environments. For instance, with one CMake file you can generate a Visual Studio Solution file, an XCode project file, a Makefile, etc. Several IDEs are also able to read CMake files directly.

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[–] jupyter_rain@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 4 weeks ago

I like this idea!

[–] colournoun@beehaw.org 10 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Professional CMake: A Practical Guide by Craig Scott is an excellent guide to modern cmake usage. Well worth the $30 if you need to build, maintain, or modify a CMake project.

https://crascit.com/professional-cmake/

[–] jupyter_rain@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 4 weeks ago

Thanks a lot!

[–] loics2@lemm.ee 2 points 3 weeks ago

And an update has just been released today!

[–] witx@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

This was solved by moving to bazel. It's a bit more verbose and resource heavy, but the language is sane and how you structure your build code makes a lot of sense

[–] scrion@lemmy.world 5 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

Based on this comment*, I'll migrate a large project to bazel now. I'll report how it goes.

  • disclaimer: the comment just pushed me over the edge
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[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I have legitimately never met a single person in real life who has anything positive to say about bazel, and I assume it it because they have all killed themselves.

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[–] USSMojave@startrek.website 5 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

There are cmake debuggers where you can walk through exactly what it's doing line by line

[–] jupyter_rain@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Do you have a good one which you can recommend?

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Who debugs the builds of the build debugger?

[–] dgriffith@aussie.zone 3 points 3 weeks ago

Someone with only a tenuous grip on their sanity, I'd imagine.

[–] urda@lebowski.social 4 points 4 weeks ago

I’m in this photo and I don’t like it

[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 3 weeks ago

sudo make me a cmake

[–] JATtho@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

I never finished reading my CMake book that weights about two kilos. It's now outdated, except for the core concepts.

[–] nexussapphire@lemm.ee 2 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

I forgot to assign a variable, now it crashes %5 of the time. It's wild how c doesn't default variables to null or something.

[–] Endmaker@ani.social 13 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

default variables to null or something

That is such a bad idea. Better to have the compiler warn you about it like in Rust, or have the linter / IDE highlight it.

[–] nexussapphire@lemm.ee 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

If it's going to compile without any warnings I'd rather the app crash rather than continue execution with rogue values as it does now.

There is so much room for things like corrupted files or undocumented behavior until it crashes. Without the compiler babysitting you it's a lot easier to find broken variables when they don't point to garbage.

[–] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Just enable all compiler warnings (and disable the ones you don't care about), a good C compiler can tell you about using unassigned variables.

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[–] CodeMonkey@programming.dev 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

C does exactly what you tell it, no more. Why waste cycles setting a variable to a zero state when a correct program will set it to whatever initial state it expects? It is not user friendly, but it is performant.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Except that this is wrong. C is free to do all kinds of things you didn't ask it to, and will often initialize your variables without you writing it.

[–] nexussapphire@lemm.ee 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Machine code would be a better example of what he's talking about imo. Not an expert or anything of course.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Odds are that your computer doesn't export any language where it will do exactly as you say (amd64 machine code certainly won't execute exactly as written). And how much difference it makes varies from one language to another.

But the specific example from the OP, of uninitialized variables, is one of those cases where the C spec famously goes completely out of line and says your code can do whatever, run with a random value, fail, initialize it, format your hard drive, make a transaction on your bank account... whatever.

[–] Hack3900@lemy.lol 2 points 3 weeks ago

Coding in C but if I don't initialize a Variable the compiler formats my drive! (Not Clickbait)

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[–] lung@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago

That's like one thing ML can actually help with XD cute cat

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