this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2024
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[–] bolditalicroman@lemmy.world 225 points 3 months ago (8 children)

For anyone wondering, Deutschland, Duitsland and Tyskland all have the same latin root "theodiscus" that became "deutsch". "Allemagne" derives from a germanic tribe, the "Alemanni" who lived in modern day Germany and bordered modern day france. Niemcy and Nemetorszag both stem from old slavic "nem" (or something similar) meaning "mute". They called the Germanic tribes they interacted with mute because they couldn't understand them. "Saksa" is derived from the German region "Saxony".

Please correct me in case i got something wrong.

[–] Successful_Try543 58 points 3 months ago (5 children)

The Latin root theodiscus is actually just the latinised form of the Old High German thiutisk from Indo-European teuta and means "people". Similarly, Alemanni means "all men". The Saxons were named after their typical sword or fighting knive, the Seax or Sax. It's still discussed where the term "German" originates from.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 21 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The Saxons were named after their typical sword or fighting knive, the Seax or Sax.

There's also a possibility the name is related to "settling", and the knife then probably named after the tribe.

[–] Bumblefumble@lemm.ee 23 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's a common misconception, they are actually named after the famous jazz instrument the saxophone.

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[–] ggtdbz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 37 points 3 months ago

For good measure, in Arabic, Niemcy (actually “Namsa”) is what we call Austria. Germany is “Almania”, same as in French.

Of course, we have as many curveballs as you could want for European place names. Like Venice. Somehow we ended up with “Al Bunduqiya” for Venice. Have fun with that one.

[–] modeler@lemmy.world 22 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Just to add one more sidenote: France is of course named after the Franks, a German people who lived next door to the Alemanni and the Saxons.

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[–] then_three_more@lemmy.world 18 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Any idea about how English came to call it Germany?

[–] Synthuir@lemmy.ml 31 points 3 months ago (1 children)
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[–] antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Niemcy and Nemetorszag both stem from old slavic “nem” (or something similar) meaning “mute”.

More precisely, the first one is from Proto-Slavic root *něm- ("mute") and suffix *-ьcь ("person with that characteristic"); ě was not quite the same sound as e, so linguists mark it with the haček, just as it is marked in Czech to this day. In modern languages the nationality is called: Ru. nemec, Pol. Niemiec, Cro. Nijemac... But the country itself is called Ru. Germanija (from Latin), Pol. Niemcy (literally plural "Germans"), Cro. Njemačka (actually a feminine adjective, taken from the syntagm "Njemačka zemlja" = "German land").

The Hungarian name is a combination of the Slavic loaned *němьcь > "német" ("German") and "ország" ("land"): Németország.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

the “Alemanni” who lived in modern day Germany and bordered modern day france.

Alemans still live in Baden-Württemberg, parts of Bavaria, Switzerland and I think there's also a splattering in Austria. Basically, High Germans which aren't Austro-Bavarian (same culture, different kingdoms) are Alemans.

“Saksa” is derived from the German region “Saxony”.

That one can be a bit misleading: The modern state of Saxony has nothing to do with the Saxon tribe, the place the title was applied to slowly drifted over the ages. They're much more related to Prussians and Thuringians and even Franks, going all the way over to Flanders and Holland, than Saxons proper. (Holland, not Netherlands).

Here's a rough splotch of where Old Saxon was spoken, which you can consider "core Saxony". At least linguistics-wise it spread quite a bit especially during the days of the Hanse (becoming a minority language as far up as Estonia), but it definitely stops before arriving at a place where "goose meat" means "could you please". Utter gibberish.

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[–] thedirtyknapkin@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I'm guessing saksa is more like the others and based on the Saxon people that once lived there rather than the modern region named for the same

[–] clucose@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

They‘re still living there.

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[–] wieson 10 points 3 months ago

thiutisk/ theodisk is from a Germanic/ old high German root meaning "belonging to the people"

As is the root of most self descriptions, the name of a group for themselves means "we" or "the people" or "humans".

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 80 points 3 months ago (15 children)

This is why I think Turkey's insistence it be called "Türkiye" in English is dumb. English doesn't use umlauts, most English speakers can't even pronounce "ü" properly. English doesn't use "iye" sounds. They should be happy that the country is more-or-less pronounced the way it sounds in Turkish.

I mean, look at some of Turkey's neighbours. Georgia, pronounced "sakartvelo" by the locals. Armenia, called "Hayastan" by the people who live there. Greece, called "Elláda" by people who speak Greek (sorry, speak "elliniká").

People aren't speaking your language when they're talking about your country, they're speaking their own language, and "Turkey" is about as close as English gets to "Türkiye"

[–] RedAggroBest@lemmy.world 37 points 3 months ago

Because it's solely an "issue" that exists to stoke nationalistic thought in the populace. It's propaganda

[–] nawa@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago

Honestly Sakartvelo sounds so much better than Georgia, everyone should be using that instead. Others are equal in my opinion but Sakartvelo is just great.

[–] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

Yes, it's ridiculous. Different countries have different languages, including the words for other countries. Turkish for England is İngiltere, that's not a problem.

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[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 56 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Germany: "Fine, fine, we're Germany to you. You could have called us Dutchland instead of using that for people from the Netherlands, but whatever."

USA: pointing to people who settled Pennsylvania from Germany "Pennsylvania Dutch!"

Germany: ಠ_ಠ

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[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 52 points 3 months ago (7 children)

Shouldnt have called yourself a „Holy Roman Empire” if you didn’t want us to get confused.

[–] Zwiebel 29 points 3 months ago

You mean the heiliges römisches Reich deutscher Nation?

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[–] cholesterol@lemmy.world 42 points 3 months ago (2 children)

'Tyskland' in Danish, not 'Tyksland'.

'Tyksland' would mean 'Thickland' or 'Fatland'

[–] federalreverse 21 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Tyksland it is! Thank you, @cholesterol.

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[–] Skua@kbin.earth 10 points 3 months ago

So it's Tyskland most of the time, and during the reign of Charles III it can be Tyksland

[–] morgunkorn@discuss.tchncs.de 34 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Can we also talk about "Dutch"?

[–] Skua@kbin.earth 30 points 3 months ago (4 children)

English-speakers used to use it to mean all non-Scandinavian Germanic peoples. When the Netherlanders became a distinctly separate group Britain had way more contact with them than with anyone else that the word used to cover, so we used it to refer to them specifically

[–] morgunkorn@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 3 months ago

interesting! thank you for the explanation :)

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[–] Servais@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 3 months ago

Yeah, it's always so confusing

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[–] norimee@lemmy.world 26 points 3 months ago (11 children)

I personally find it worse, if city names are very different. Like Krung Thep Maha Nakhon (...) as Bangkok. Most Thai people just say Krung Thep, why can't the rest of the world? I mean, they only changed the name in 1782...

Or Italians call Munich 'Monaco' which is really confusing because there is literally a country not that far away.

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[–] norimee@lemmy.world 26 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Deutschland is a fairly new word. Before that there were a multitude of germanic tribes and those have made their way into the language of our neighbours as the name of the country

Germanen, Allemannen, Sachsen to name a few.

Deutsch, Tysk, Tedesco... come from the Latin "theudo" - "das Volk/the people"

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[–] Bezier@suppo.fi 25 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So, anyone wanna revive one of the polandball communities or open a new one?

[–] Servais@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 3 months ago

I posted a few European Polandball comics here, I think it fits the mood

Polandball on a world scale might need some heavy moderation due to potential political debates

[–] rainynight65 23 points 3 months ago (4 children)

The funny thing is that most languages in the world call Finland Finland or something adjacent (usually containing the syllable 'Fin-'), while it's 'Suomi' in Finnish. Only the Baltic states call it something similar to that.

[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 months ago

France puts a lot of effort into evolving the language very specifically to avoid loanwords and the perceived dilution of the language they might create. They have an entire government cultural body responsible for this.

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[–] Malgas@beehaw.org 22 points 3 months ago

IIRC a lot (all?) of these come from the names of specific Germanic tribes that these languages had contact with back before Germany existed as a unified entity, which then metathesized into a demonym for the entire cultural group and then the nation state. "Saksa", for example, is a doublet of "Saxon".

[–] Hupf 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Saksa, when the Wall fell.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 14 points 3 months ago (24 children)

So which country is known by the same name to the most number of other countries?

[–] datelmd5sum@lemmy.world 44 points 3 months ago (6 children)

Japan is Japan everywhere except Japan.

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[–] Manzas@lemdro.id 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So that's where all these god damn Voke people come from

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[–] Val@lemm.ee 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

saksa comes from saxony, which was historically a major power in the region. (My knowledge comes from CK2)

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[–] jaxxed@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

Latvian: Vacija ?!?

Also, it always killed me that in English, people from the Netherlands are called Dutch

[–] pigup@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

In Spanish it's Alemania.

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