He already told Hillary to her face he was going to prosecute her and send her to prison. Then when he was in office he backed down immediately.
this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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Because that's what you do for each other when you're in the same club
trump has spent his entire life trying to buy his way into the club. But he couldn't.
He was able to donate enough to Dems to get Bill and Hillary to his wedding.
But you can tell he legitimately thought if he did the "no time to divide the country" in 2020, that he'd get the same treatment.
That's why he's going so hard on "this isn't fair".
He didn't actually try to press charges on Hillary for her crimes (yes, they were a minor felony and misdemeanors, but still crimes). So he doesn't understand why he's got trials for his crimes (obviously they're much bigger crimes)
trump thought being a president finally got him into the club, it's probably the only reason he wanted to be president.
Since it didn't work, he's not going to drum up charges on everyone he disagrees with.
Which is why it makes zero sense Biden keeps pissing off his own voters. You'd think he'd be motivated to win when Trump will try to throw him and his whole family in jail.
But Biden won't stop denying genocide and making republican moves at the border, both of which violate laws and human rights.
He's got more to lose than anyone this election, and he refuses to act like it for some reason
This is what I don't understand about establishment dems playing chicken with our Democracy, their neck is on the line too.
I really don't understand why they think making a show of being Republican Lite is ever going to start working. If someone wants a fascist they're just going to vote for a full-on fascist, not a half-fascist.
There’s no realistic alternative to voting for Biden.
It’s either; make sure Trump loses, or watch the USA and the bulwark of democracy it represents around the world be destroyed.
(Edit: sorry for the rant)
I think most of the ‘low information voters’ (this actually means ‘low intelligence’ but people are afraid to say that) who think Trump is ‘as good or better than the other guy’ are utterly deluded. Their basic lack of intelligence and education has shown this to be the case anyway.
There is absolutely no excuse for voting for Trump unless you are utterly fucked in the head, or so cynical that you think you might make some Pugh money to survive once the US government implodes.
[...] or watch the USA and the bulwark of democracy it represents around the world be destroyed.
Ok...but I'm watching that occur right now under Biden anyway. Like, dems desperately need to stop moving to the right, the distinction that you're trying to draw is becoming less and less meaningful with every lesser of two evils elected.
We need a party that allows fighters to lead the way, not fascists and corporate lapdogs. The party politics need to change yesterday, it's difficult for many voters to see that happening if neoliberalism isn't kicked to the curb.
What would you call people who won’t vote for Trump but refuse to vote for Biden too because Gaza?
Edit: To be clear I agree with all the replies here
People who are going to get Trump elected.
The US does not represent democracy. And it is ever more clear it is not a democracy, but rather the illusion of one controlled by oligarchs and private interests. There is merely an illusion of choice.
It is a totalitarian capitalist democratic republic.
trumps always wanted to be "in the club" that's all he's always wanted.
It why he donated so much to Democrats that Bill and Hillary felt obligated to attend one of his weddings.
He thought not pressing charges would get him "in the club" because the next president always pardons others because "consequences would divide the nation" or some other such bullshit.
He legit thought that would quid pro quo him into not facing any charges too.
If he gets office again, he's going after everyone who disagrees with him.
Which is why Dems need to either run a better candidate, or get Biden to stop fucking around and start listening to his voters.
It's too risky to keep using trump as an excuse to shove conservative Dems down America's throats.
We need to run a good campaign this time, with a good candidate.
He wanted to get in good with the Manhattan elites. He was given a golden opportunity to impress them, and threw it away because he's a stupid, arrogant, greedy idiot.
Yep, most of what trump has wanted is just to be accepted by "the cool kids".
It's just he's a total jackass, so even though they'd take his money, and the Clinton's showed up at his wedding...
He's never getting in the club.
Not sure why everyone downvoted me and upvoted you when we said the same thing though
They are probably downvoting you because you've got a silly idea that Biden isn't listening to his voters.
For some reason, many people on the Left seem to think that we are a massive majority. We aren't.
Trump got almost half the votes in 2016. He's still polling well today.
You don't live in a country that has a strong Left majority.
you’ve got a silly idea that Biden isn’t listening to his voters
You think Dem voters support Israels genocide or codifying Trump's border policies thru executive actions?
Is this one of those things where you look at a poll of "voters" and see ~60% agree with Biden?
For some reason people don't always realize ~50% of voters are Republicans and will never vote for any Dem.
What Biden is doing isn't popular with a majority of the people who might vote for him. But yes, the people who will never vote for him like that he's conservative. It just doesn't matter because they're voting trump.
You don’t live in a country that has a strong Left majority.
Debatable, but irreverent to what Dem voters want. The voters who make up the Dem party have a "strong Left majority" as you put it.
I'm saying Biden and the party should cater to the people they have a chance of voting for.
What lifelong Republican voters and current trump supporters want literally doesn't matter when talking about how Biden can get votes.
He has no chance of getting their votes.
I hope this makes sense
I hope this makes sense
No, it doesn't.
Trump and his people are calling for mass arrests in the US and the destruction of Palestine.
In 1968 a lot of voters felt they couldn't stand having Humphrey as President. They let Nixon win.
You vote for Biden and you can vote for someone else in 2028. You let Trump win and voting might be off the table completely.
Wait...
So you give an example of when the Dems ran a candidate further to the right than their voters want...
Which resulted in the Republican winning...
And you blame voters?
And now, when the Dem party is running a candidate further than the right than Dem voters want...
You're already blaming the voters?
You still haven't realized the solution is running candidates that appeal to voters?
Did you forget Bill Clinton and Barack Obama happened in the middle?
You charismatic candidates who ran progressive campaigns that led to decisive wins?
You vote for Biden and you can vote for someone else in 2028
Lol, that's what they said about 2016, and 2020..
It's what you're saying about 2024...
But next year, next year will definitely be different?
Lol, that’s what they said about 2016, and 2020…
So, you forgot about the January 6 coup attempt?
You two seem to be somewhat talking at cross purposes.
As far as I can see, what they're saying is that the Dem candidate needs to apeal to Dem voters and those who could be persuaded to vote Dem, to ensure their vote. If Biden turns enough of them off and they don't vote he risks losing. On the other hand dyed in the wool Republican voters probably can't be turned, so there's no point trying to apeal to them.
You seem to be saying that not voting for Biden, despite him being unpopular, risk letting Trump in. That is also true, and it is vital that Trump is stopped, they're just pointing out that that is easier if Biden listens to his base, rather than population wide surveys.
The issue is some people really support the horrible shit Biden is doing, and if the Dem candidate won't do it, then they'll vote Republican.
It happened when Obama managed to beat Hillary in 08. Moderates had a movement to vote Republican over Obama, and they did.
They were just statistically insignificant and Obama had a landslide win that flipped multiple red states and got us the House and Senate.
It's really really hard to get Dem voters to compromise their morals though, moderate Dems need someone horrible they can stand next to and say "we have to stop them!".
The issue is it didn't work in 2016, barely worked in 2020, and by all indications won't work in 2024.
We know what works. But the DNCs corporate donors would prefer a Republican to progressives. So they donate huge amounts during a primary and by the time it's the general there's no way for them to lose.
It happened when Obama managed to beat Hillary in 08. Moderates had a movement to vote Republican over Obama, and they did.
Have you got any source for that at all?
Sooooo many.
It's not a secret, it was openly all over the place back in 08.
But I feel old realizing some people just weren't politically active back then.
Here's a pre election poll
https://news.gallup.com/poll/105691/mccain-vs-obama-28-clinton-backers-mccain.aspx
Here's a post election article
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-were-those-clinton-mccain-crossover-voters/
Here's a pre election article
https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/26/clinton.backers/index.html
Here's the Wikipedia article on it
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_and_liberal_support_for_John_McCain_in_2008
But this is something that is easily searchable and was an absolute huge news story...
If most people have already forgotten about it, maybe that's the disconnect I've been experiencing? Why people don't realize how much Dems have changed in the last three cycles?
They just genuinely don't know what it was like before trump?
That actually makes a lot of sense, and honestly I should have thought about that.
Before we can get people on board with what we should do, we need to make sure they're aware of what has happened. People don't understand how much they've lost over just a few decades.
So, by the stories you posted yourself, there were people who switched from McCain to Obama after Obama beat Hillary.
Kind of like the 2008 election had two good candidates who respected the system and each other.
Nice try.
https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/26/clinton.backers/index.html
You missed one I guess
Well. At least one.
You're hilarious.
Yes, one person is exactly the same as a mass movement. The subject got headlines because she was rare.
You were trying to imply that after Obama got the nod there was a mass migration from the Dems to McCain, and that loss was only made up by a massive Left tsunami that had sat out the primaries.
So you didn't read the Wikipedia link either?
During the campaign, there was significant media discussion of Democratic Hillary Clinton voters backing McCain, in particular members of People United Means Action (also known as PUMA, originally standing for "Party Unity My Ass," and also known as "Just Stay No Deal") and those sympathetic to it.[40] After Clinton's June 8 concession, 40% of women who supported Clinton described themselves as dissatisfied and 7% described themselves as angry; 25% said they would support McCain in November.[41]
Polling data According to Gallup Polls from June 9 to August 17 McCain's cross-party support fluctuated between 10% and 13%. In the poll for August 18 to August 24 support for McCain among Democrats peaked at 14%. From October 13 to October 19 polls showed McCain's support among Democrats to be 7%, which was the lowest thus far.[42] The CNN exit polls placed his Democratic support at 10% with the same percentage for liberal support. These results may not represent the general voters due to early voting.[43]
According to exit polls on Election Day, McCain won the votes of only 10% of Democrats nationwide, the same percentage of Democrats' votes that George W. Bush won in 2004.[5]
Or the poll it referenced? I linked that too
You were trying to imply that after Obama got the nod there was a mass migration from the Dems to McCain,
Nope, I said:
It happened when Obama managed to beat Hillary in 08. Moderates had a movement to vote Republican over Obama, and they did.
They were just statistically insignificant and Obama had a landslide win that flipped multiple red states and got us the House and Senate.
Like, it seems the issue is your drastically underestimating how disproportionately moderate party leads represent the very very tiny percentage of Dem voters who are "moderate". The moderates are not the bulk of the party, they never were.
But to be honest, it doesn't seem like you're interested in actual talking about this, you keep trying to turn this into an argument...
According to exit polls on Election Day, McCain won the votes of only 10% of Democrats nationwide, the same percentage of Democrats’ votes that George W. Bush won in 2004.[5]
So, literally no mass movemnet by "Moderates" trying to screw over the Left.
I don't want to talk about it because it's meaningless.
Recap of "ancient" history:
On 9/11/01 terrorists attacked America...
This made everyone embrace a shitty leader and even questioning them led to social outcasting for years
The facts that 08 matched the first election since 9/11 is too illustrate how fucking huge it was...
But honestly, if I don't block you now, you're going to say something else that is so easy to explain I take the two seconds. You haven't learned anything yet, I doubt you will if I put more time in.
Nope.
trump will do it again in fact. Every election he doesn't win is going to see a 1/6 like event, or at least that's what we need to be ready for.
Which is why beating him is so important, and why Biden needs to stop caring about what people who will never vote D want, and start caring about the people who will never vote R want.
Because the people who go back and forth between the parties are statistically insignificant.
But you keep jumping around a lot, Everytime I explain one point, you pivot to a new one about why Biden shouldn't be held to any standards and trump has to be stopped.
I agree trump has to be stopped.
But even from your historical example, the way we do that isn't running a candidate more conservative than what voters want.
The way we do that so running candidates like Obama and Bill. Not Humphries, Biden, or Hillary.
2020 was the lucky exception, not a new rule.