this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2024

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Sleep paralysis demon (lemmy.world)

submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by deathmetal27@lemmy.world to c/programmerhumor@lemmy.ml

52 comments fedilink hide all child comments

What does your sleep paralysis demon ask you?

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[–] istdaslol 25 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Yes. Markup-Languages are a subset of Programming-Languages. Turing completness doesn’t matter as things like magic the gathering and habbo hotel are Turing complete

[–] ransomwarelettuce@lemmy.world 31 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I am markdown and latex programmer.

Idk it just feels wrong.

[–] theherk@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

If you can write a moderately complex math equation in tex on the first try, you’re a programmer in my book.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago

idk css feels just as frustrating

[–] Dirk@lemmy.ml 10 points 4 months ago

So Habbo Hotel is a programming language.

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I feel like programming language produces programs, and makeup languages formatted documents.

I wouldn't consider a formatted document to be a program, so I don't consider a markup language to be a programming language.

Doesn't make it less valuable, though

[–] Dirk@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

ACKSHUALLY ... markup languages do not produce a formatted document. They define semantic elements of the document. The formatting is done by the compiler (whatever it is in the individual context) based on styles defined by a styling language.

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 months ago

That's true! Although many people use makeup to do styling using the default styles... Which is... Not great.

But regardless I think my point still holds, it's not providing instructions for a machine, it's the data the instructions act on. But the difference between data and instructions is a blurry one

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

'This markup language isn't even as capable as Habbo Hotel, but it counts anyway because I just called it a programming language.'

There is a literal hierarchy of syntaxes which are recognized by different categories of machine. Programs require a Turing machine. Anything lesser - in a subset like pushdown automata or finite-state machines - doesn't need a proper computer. So it's not a program.

[+] velox_vulnus@lemmy.ml 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (6 children)

[deleted]

[–] pewpew@feddit.it 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

idk it seem nobody has an answer. Can we just call it "mid-level"?

[+] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] QuazarOmega@lemy.lol 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I program in natural language

[–] deathmetal27@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

"Go and buy some milk and if they have eggs, get some."

[–] QuazarOmega@lemy.lol 2 points 4 months ago

Syntax error on line 1, column 53: expected object for predicate `get`

[–] istdaslol 6 points 4 months ago

Yes, es soon you start pointer arithmetic you dig your own grave. Hence low level

[–] HStone32@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

Not when it was invented, no. Compared to today's stack-phobic languages? Certainly.

[–] lars@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 4 months ago

I mean idfk how you’re planning on calling a.out without an even, stronger, lower-level language like Bash 3.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm writing an NES game in C and struggling with some nonsense that'd be trivial in ASM, so I'm recently inclined to say yes.

[–] brisk@aussie.zone 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Can you just drop to assembly for what you want to do? Gnu compilers even have inline assembly, but with any compiler you should at least be able to built a separate, assembly, object file.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago

I can and have, and it's still a tremendous pain in the ass to launder the addresses for labels. The hottest loop in the game draws an arbitrary span of the same tile. It should be trivial to do a jump table - to grab an address from an array and go there. 13 tiles? goto jump[13]. (Or really some stack / return shenanigans, because the 6502 is odd.) But if there's any way to get cc65 to shove the location of an instruction into an array, I haven't found it.

[–] linkhidalgogato@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 months ago

clearly not, but it is low-er level that other stuff

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's a markup language, not a programming language.

[–] deathmetal27@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago (13 children)

Woosh

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[–] metaStatic@kbin.earth 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

is a hotdog a sandwich?

[–] morbidcactus@lemmy.ca 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Taco according to the cube rule

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago

yes

[–] TheUnicornOfPerfidy@feddit.uk 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Why does a demon need a moustache?

[–] muhyb@programming.dev 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Makes him cooler?

[–] pewpew@feddit.it 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Makes him evil

[–] muhyb@programming.dev 5 points 4 months ago

So, if he shaves, would that makes him neutral? Good?

[–] TheUnicornOfPerfidy@feddit.uk 2 points 4 months ago

I mean that's what it asks me 😆

[–] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 months ago

Does HTML or LaTeX or Markdown provide a computer instructions which are executed? I'm going to take the unpopular opinion and say they are programming languages.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You can't write a program in HTML.

End of discussion.

[–] linkhidalgogato@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

programing languages arent use to make programs they are used to program machines which is exactly what u do with html.

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 months ago

The "program" is the package of instructions that tell the machine what to do. The instructions are written in a programming language.

With a markup language, the markup is the input to a program (like a browser) that tells the machine what to do.

But I think it's not really boolean, it's a sliding scale. Especially with so many programming languages being interpreted or JIT compiled. I think it's less a programming language than many other programming-related things, but more of a programming language than, say, a slideshow.

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

they are used to program machines

Which HTML cannot do, because if it could, that would be called a program. That's what the word means.

HTML makes documents. It's a markup language. It's not even Turing-complete accidentally.

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[–] Jimbabwe@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Is fondant a cake?

[–] electricprism@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago

Is Linux a operating system?

[–] electricprism@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

Hyper Text Markup Language

A. Yes it's a language.

B. People who write HTML have been called Programmers for decades.

C. Are you writing in a kind of pseudo code that the computer is going to transform into another form? Yes.

I think the problem here isn't that HTML isn't a programming language. The problem is that we don't further classify programming languages.

There should be Platform Languages and Client languages.

HTML is most definitely a Client Language.

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