this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2023
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The Israel Defense Forces says it supplied 300 liters of fuel for “urgent medical purposes” at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, but Hamas prevented the medical center from receiving it.

Early this morning, troops placed the jerrycans near the hospital, as had been coordinated in advance with officials at Shifa.

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[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

A small hospital generator would burn that on about 3 hours. This is a dog and pony show.

[–] SHITPOSTING_ACCOUNT@feddit.de 0 points 10 months ago

That sounds like a reasonable amount to provide, since they can provide another shipment 2h later if it actually goes to the hospital. (At full power it'd be 30 minutes, but I assume critical loads only could be powered a lot longer).

The evidence provided is weak though, and it could easily be staged. We didn't get lucky by having Hamas publicly confirm that they indeed did it, but it'd be inline with their other statements that show utter disregard for Palestinian life.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

What in the fuck would 70 gallons of fuel do for a hospital? A few hours of power? Is that supposed to be a genuine attempt at aid? Less than $200 of fuel?

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Interesting question.

Apparently an ICU bed requires ~200 W of power.

I don't know the type of fuel or generator, but I found an arbitrary model that can output 1800W, enough for 9 ICU beds. Four liters of gasoline provide 5400Wh, which means they lasts 3 hrs.

So I estimate 300 liters of gasoline could have powered 9 ICU beds for over nine days.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Oh cool, wonder how many ICU beds they have to power. I wonder what other equipment they need.

In any case that's a pittance. I could've provided more personally. A country-like entity could certainly do much better, like maybe just suppling power and not bombing their power infrastructure.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I don't know how many ICU beds they have to power, but Shifa Hospital has 30 ICU beds in all.

So if all the ICU beds are occupied, then 300 liters of gasoline would power them for two to three days.

[–] filister@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The hospital needs 9000-10000 liters a day of fuel. Do you think there is a single power generator connected to the neonatal unit? How are they going to limit the consumption? It's not really that easy and I bet most of the electricians also left the hospital... Your napkin math is also not taking into account any power losses, etc.

Plus offering 300 liters is laughable. Seriously, your car's fuel tank is 60+ liters, so Israel offered them 5 car tanks worth of fuel. How generous and humane of them!

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Someone asked what 300 L of fuel could do for a hospital, and I estimated an answer.

Nobody said it would be sufficient to power an entire hospital. It could power a full ICU, which is usually where the patients at greatest risk are found, for 2-3 days.

It doesn't matter how many power generators are used, the energy requirements are the same. The hospital is already using power generators, so electricians are irrelevant.

[–] filister@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Tell me you are not an engineer without telling me.

Seriously, stop spreading this nonsense, as you have no idea how to calculate fuel consumption of a diesel generator. Have you heard of a parameter called power factor? Or electrical losses? Do you know how to operate a diesel generator or how to disconnect all other power consuming devices from the diesel generator?

Another food for thought for you is that this power generator is probably huge, and is not designed to consume very little fuel, meaning the power factor is low around his originally designed power output and the further away you are from it, the lower the power factor is, the greater the losses.

You said you have worked in a hospital, but answer me a question, how many times have you touched the diesel generator there or any part of the electrical system of the hospital and do you feel confident enough to do any changes on it? And be honest!

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Are you assuming there is a large, central generator operating to supply the entire hospital? If that is the case, then I agree that it would be very difficult for a small fuel supply to be used effectively.

But I'm assuming that such a generator would be destroyed or otherwise not in use. And that small fuel shipments would be delivered to portable generators at critical locations (like an ICU) in order to triage power use.

As before, if you have a better estimate that includes any factors I've omitted, then I would love to see it. I'm simply not satisfied by previous low-effort estimates, such as comparing 300 L to an automobile fuel tank.

[–] filister@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The truth is that we both are currently guesstimating, but you are simplifying a lot of the unknowns I am pretty sure things aren't that easy. Plus those generators are usually handled by trained technicians who most likely left the hospital long ago.

Plus you didn't answer my question about your knowledge of diesel generators, how many times have you operated one? And are you feeling confident that you can operate one?

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Again, I'm talking about portable gasoline generators, since I doubt the hospital has a working main generator.

You don't need a trained technician to run a portable generator. I'm perfectly capable of operating my 2000 W unit, which is currently sitting in my garage.

Otherwise, yes of course I'm estimating. A rough estimate is better than no estimate. When a better estimate becomes available, throw out the previous one.

[–] filister@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So then why don't you go there, pick up the fuel in an active war zone, connect the generator and connect the incubators to it. Seriously you are considerably downplaying the complexity of this. It is all good and easy when you are comfortably sitting on your couch.

[–] SHITPOSTING_ACCOUNT@feddit.de 0 points 10 months ago

Because if the statements by the IDF are true (there is little solid evidence but it'd be in line with what we know about Hamas' behavior), there is an obstacle in the way that isn't the IDF, too little fuel, or a technical problem.

[–] SHITPOSTING_ACCOUNT@feddit.de 0 points 10 months ago

"How are they going to limit consumption" really? Turn off breakers, pull plugs, turn off switches, have an electrician measure, whack everyone who uses power for anything but the absolutely most life critical applications with a large stick...