this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2024
727 points (98.9% liked)

politics

18894 readers
3002 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
  2. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  3. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  4. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
  5. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  6. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But their employer isn't paying them minimum wage, regardless.

[–] Tilgare@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (3 children)

It's kind of a semantics argument I guess. Their employer is ensuring that they are taking home no less than minimum wage - because they are paying them up to minimum wage as necessary.

To properly address this would require fully overhauling our tipping culture and laws around pay for tipped workers, which sounds great to me as a consumer. But if you ask a waiter or bartender, many would MUCH rather leave things the way they are, because they make an absolute killing and taking 100% of pay from their employer would result in a substantial pay cut.

[–] BlitzoTheOisSilent@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Retirement homes constantly have this issue regarding their wait staff. The servers you want to hire won't work there because they don't get tips. We started our servers at like $16/hr and could still only ever get high school and college kids, or people who were retired or needed a second job part-time.

I was a cook at a restaurant chain at Christmas one year. Waiter and I worked identical shifts, and were walking to our cars at the same time. He mentioned how excited he was that he'd made $300 in just cash tips that day. I told him I worked the same amount of hours and only got about $90 after taxes. I asked if he felt he worked over $200 harder than I did that day, and he dropped the subject.

My point being: wait staff and bartenders make too much from their tips that they don't want them to go away. As someone who was always working on the line and only got 2 tips over the course of a decade-long cooking career... I can't say I blame them.

[–] FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Alternative fix: make the minimum wage an actual minimum wage regardless of tips. Let the market sort itself out from there.

[–] Tilgare@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I don't disagree. But for the sake of playing devils advocate a bit - restaurants already take YEARS to achieve profitability because costs are so high. If you suddenly triple all of your wait staff's salaries, small, local restaurants making good faith efforts to operate ethically would probably be the ones to suffer.

And yet - I've heard that if McDonald's were to pay employees $15/hr, because of economies of scale, it would raise the cost of a burger by mere pennies.

So if your local mom and pop's can't afford to operate now, and all you're left with is Chili's and Olive Garden and McDonald's who priced them out of business with capital investment and economies of scale, mom and pop go away and all we're left with is the corporate garbage. And when the competition is dead, prices will steady climb. Meanwhile, those m&p restaurants all have waiters now making $0/ hour.

I'm not an economist. Obviously. And maybe it wouldn't be so dire. It just feels like "let the market sort itself out" would work great for the CEOs and not anybody else. I haven't seen the market self correct for my benefit in years. But in our failing capitalist society, I think there are about a thousand ways the worker and the consumer end up fucked either way.

[–] nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If you suddenly triple all of your wait staff’s salaries, small, local restaurants making good faith efforts to operate ethically would probably be the ones to suffer.

So how do restaurants outside the US that do not rely on the patrons paying their staff survive?

[–] Tilgare@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

They didn't fuck their system in the first place. I'm not sure how we unfuck ours with so much wrong at every step.

[–] FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Very few small mom and pop shops might need to raise prices, many of them already pay decent wages far above the minimum actually, but corporate restaurants and chains like McDonalds can absolutely afford $15 an hour without raising prices because they already pay above that amount in other places. There is already the assumption that if McDonalds could raise their prices then they would. What they pay their staff isn't a factor in the equation unless they were close to net zero or below, but unlikely because McDonalds makes Billions in Net Revenue annually in the USA alone. If the corporation decided it would be more profitable to close lower traffic operations in small towns then that would be a good thing for local restaurants.

If this sort of idea really hurt the small times more than the corpos wouldn't be fighting tooth and nail to stop it from happening using lobbying groups.

[–] nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Their employer is ensuring that they are taking home no less than minimum wage

You are assuming their employer is on the up and up. If they are not willing to pay them AT LEAST minimum wage, what makes you think they are going to make up the difference?

[–] Tilgare@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Yes, I'm assuming they're obeying labor laws of the United States. Businesses operating illegally are kind of outside of the scope of the conversation, don't you think?