this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2024
40 points (88.5% liked)

Europe

1667 readers
343 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.

founded 5 months ago
MODERATORS
federalreverse
poVoq@slrpnk.net
anzo@programming.dev
40
My father voted for Romania’s ultra-nationalist. I am beginning to understand why (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 3 weeks ago by bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/europe
9 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Ooops 44 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

The article even start with "He spends much of his free time on TikTok, and was swept up in Georgescu’s rhetoric. TikTok’s algorithm fed him a steady stream of short, stirring videos..." and then ignores reality again to spin a story of how it's all just protest voting from people felt let down by politics.

Again. For the 100000th time it's not brain-washing by social media but purely "protest voting", with social media as an innocent bystander just concidentally being there and pouring bullshit into people's brains 24/7 every single time.

[–] 0x815 23 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

@Ooops

... with social media as an innocent bystander just concidentally being there ...

Social media - and Tiktok is no exemption, of course - is not an "innocent bystander". Their algorithms deliberately surveill and manipulate users, and pursue a commercial and/or political agenda. In case of Tiktok, this agenda serves the goal of the regime in China (and their allies).

There is ample evidence for Tiktok and (almost) all other social media platforms pursuing a purpose. For the Romanian election case, there is an analysis by the European Media Observatory on the Romanian election -- (Archived link).

On 'TikTok's role in Romanian politics' and the 'Candidate Performance Metrics', it says, among others:

  • Călin Georgescu: Notably surged in popularity, garnering 120 million views, particularly in the final two months. This increase was attributed to coordinated campaigns that used both direct promotion and indirect influence via unpaid influencers, often lacking appropriate labeling. A salient example is the #echilibrușiverticalitate campaign, which reached 2.4 million views through these tactics.

The analysis also says:

The lack of effective moderation allowed for widespread dissemination of unverified information, particularly affecting extreme-right candidates.

Concerns around unlabelled or undeclared political content in the 2024 Romanian presidential elections, particularly on TikTok are significant. They emphasize a lack of transparency in political campaigns, notably involving candidates like Călin Georgescu, who used the platform without disclosing the funding and motivations behind their promotion. The employment of influencers without adequate disclosure raises ethical issues complicates voters’ understanding of the content.

[...]

The notable gap between projected poll figures (around 10%) and actual results (over 22%) raises concerns about potential external influences, including foreign interference.

Emphasis mine.

[Edit typo.]

[–] bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I reckon there’s gotta be a typo (or satire) in Oooops’ 2nd paragraph. It doesn’t fit to the first and I am relatively sure his POV is pretty similar to yours.

I on the other hand would suggest to be careful to assume everybody’s just brainwashed and by that questioning ever more election results and trying to revert them if unwanted. People voting for fascists is not a thing brought upon us by foreign actors. It comes from within and we got to fight it here much more vigorously.

[–] 0x815 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

@bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com Yah, I forget surveillance algorithms are only bad when they come from the West, right? (/s, just to be safe)

In other related news:

Romania orders election recount after TikTok bias claims

A recount of the votes cast in Sunday's first round of presidential elections in Romania has been ordered by the country's top court following allegations that social media platform TikTok gave "preferential treatment" to the surprise winner, Calin Georgescu.

[–] bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com -3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Weird answer.

But yeah, I know about the recount. And I wonder: How can a recount change anything if the voters were already manipulated when they cast their votes?

[–] 0x815 0 points 3 weeks ago

How a little-known far-right candidate manipulated TikTok to rise to the top in the Romanian election

Georgescu’s unexpected gains are partly linked to his social media strategy. He has used platforms like TikTok effectively to sway voter opinion and spread propaganda. However, allegations that his campaign is using fake accounts to fabricate comments and manipulate social media activity have also surfaced [...]

Georgescu [...] praised Romania’s former dictator and Nazi ally during the second world war, Marshal Ion Antonescu, referring to him as a “martyr” who also did “good deeds”. [...] He has also positioned himself as pro-Putin, praising the Russian president as one of the world’s few “true leaders”. He has criticised Romania’s support for Ukraine, claiming that Nato would not defend Romania if it were attacked. And he advocates for nationalist policies, aiming to reduce Romania’s reliance on imports and distance the country from the EU [...]

His TikTok account, which was set up in 2022, has more than 400,000 followers and millions of views. Numerous accounts, groups and pages in his support have also proliferated on Facebook, Instagram, and X (formerly Twitter) [...]

He has also claimed in interviews that women are incapable of leading Romania, and that feminism is “absolute dirt”. In one video, he declared that “only a man can do this”, referring to the presidency. These videos come not only from Georgescu’s official TikTok accounts, but also from unaffiliated accounts using his name in profiles or bios to promote his election [...]

These clips [on Tiktok] often rely on emotional appeals and misinformation [...]

During Georgescu’s campaign, accounts displaying bot-like behaviours have been highly active in the comment sections on TikTok, YouTube and Facebook [...]

Using bots to inflate a candidate’s social media popularity and spread misinformation is a tactic that has been used to influence elections elsewhere before [...]

Reports suggest that thousands of fake accounts promoted Georgescu through videos and comments prior to Romania’s election [...]

Valérie Hayer, a top EU lawmaker, has now called on TikTok’s CEO to appear before the European Parliament and address the platform’s possible misuse in favour of Georgescu’s campaign.

[–] cabbage@piefed.social 19 points 3 weeks ago

It's such a classic problem, the Latin phrase has a Wikipedia page:

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

The world wants to be deceived.

It explains why this guys father ended up voting against his interests. But it also explains why this guy reporting on it ends up completely missing the point, and why the masses reading his article will probably agree with him.

They want to be deceived. They want to keep using social media, even knowing it's rotting their brains away. Social media users are like any other addicts, except that your neighbourhood heroinists don't spend their days gobbling up misinformation and hot takes.

That's the main reason what we're doing on the social web is so radical. Sure, we're not on a platform that can be owned by billionaires, and that's of course cool enough. But much more than that, we don't take part in the attention economy at all. We accept the problem for what it is and we're willing to commit to an alternative.

And that's why I don't give a fuck if everyone is on Bluesky. I'm sticking to Mastodon precisely because it's not a fucking high precision attention magnet designed to suck in the masses. Anyone who doesn't see the fundamental problem of the attention economy at this point wants to be deceived, and they're dragging us all down with them.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk and all that.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

People are stupid. The length to which people can be influenced by propaganda is directly related to how stupid they are.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 7 points 3 weeks ago

Unlike me, I'm immune to propaganda because this test I took in preschool said I'm smart and will always be smart.