this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2024
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[–] Atlas_@lemmy.world 25 points 5 days ago (15 children)

(very obviously, but people keep covering this like it's a real thing so...)

You get 100% or even like, 60% of women in on this, yeah. Things will change real quick. I'd hope for the better.

If you get like 5-10% of liberal women doing this, which is by far the most that I'd believe, what's going to happen is the corresponding 5-10% of men get sexually frustrated. Then they'll go online and get caught up in all the incel->alt-right pipelines that already exist today, and men will swing further right.

If we want a movement like this to work it needs to 1. Not punish people who are already on our side and 2. Provide a better pipeline than the alt-right already has for channeling sexual frustration into action.

So cool, interesting idea, I wish it was workable but remember that a majority of women who voted voted for Trump. Even if men didn't exist he would have won.

[–] PagingDoctorLove@lemmy.world 10 points 5 days ago (6 children)

The problem is that for many women, sex always runs the risk of pregnancy, and they are actively making it extremely dangerous for us to be pregnant. I can't get a hysterectomy because insurance won't cover it, but I'm not ready to give up on kids yet either. Sure my husband can get a vasectomy but the risk is still there.

I support the 4b movement in theory but when I tried to join I was told I couldn't, because I'm married to a man. Nevermind that he's also a feminist and willing to go without sex for 4 years because he is so scared of losing me to a pregnancy related complication. I was told I can be an ally, and when I took issue with being benched in the fight for my own rights (by people who are not in charge of the movement or the interpretation of its goals,) two different people jumped down my throat.

I bowed out before the argument could escalate, but I can see now how even with the best intentions this movement may further divide women, and the men and non-binary folks who support them. Ideally the 4b's would be like a protest "menu" of actions you can take to drive the point home. Yes, even to the good men who don't deserve to be "punished." Because it's not a punishment. It's us saying okay, either you don't respect us or you're just not willing to fight for us unless things are uncomfortable for you, so let's make them uncomfortable for you. No more free labor, physical or emotional. No more customer service voice. No more explaining things that you can figure out on your own. No cooking or cleaning unless it's for us. Oh you usually change all the diapers? How nice. Now you can do that, and bathtime, make breakfast and dinner, pack lunches, plan birthday parties, buy all the Christmas gifts, host and cook Thanksgiving dinner, do the dishes, keep the house organized and pleasant to live in... you get the drill.

If you're already the one who does these things in your relationship, good for you! But most adult men don't, not because they're bad people but because they weren't socialized to be people pleasing servants and/or sex objects like most women have been.

I'm in support of just a general women's strike, but that's going to look different for everyone.

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com -3 points 5 days ago (3 children)

The problem is that for many women, sex always runs the risk of pregnancy, and they are actively making it extremely dangerous for us to be pregnant.

so then don't have sex because it's not economically or financially tenable. Not because "men are the scum of the earth"

There's nothing wrong with a principled opinion, there's everything wrong with a pointed attack founded on shaky grounds.

The left really fucking sucks at rhetoric, that's one thing i've noticed.

[–] ericatty@infosec.pub 4 points 4 days ago

She clearly said the risk of pregnancy was due to policy decisions, not bad men. She obviously adores her husband and he adores her. One of the points is that even happily married couples who should be able to have sex can't have sex because the medical risk is too great because of decisions made by a government and not medical professionals and their patients.

They sound like people that would like to have children one day. But if the medical care isn't available they are gambling on o will they get: 1 - a healthy baby and two alive healthy parents 2 - a baby and a grieving dad (wife dead) 3 - only a grieving husband (wife and baby dead) 4 - no baby, grieving parents, and a wife with possible lifetime disability, and/or infertility 5 - a severely disabled baby that the parents get to watch suffer for days and weeks or longer before it dies of something we already know is incompatible with life.

The rest of it is trying to figure out how to support other women, through 4B or however possible, that are in other situations from her own.

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