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Even easier. Make the shit electronic. Stop pussy footin around and make it available on the Internet.
I know enough about the internet to know that this would end up being a bad idea. Not to say that there isn't a way to correctly implement it (I honestly don't know). But even if there is, should we trust them to do it correctly? Our (US) government full of octogenarians?
Why? Everything is on the Internet. You can buy houses and bank on the Internet. There are scams sure. But the physical votes are still tabulated and entered into the fuckin Internet!
Right. And you trust the American government to be transparent with this process? You trust every individual involved in programming this system not to fuck it up in some way, intentionally or not?
There's just way too much that can go wrong, and more possible attack vectors that could possibly be accounted for. We already have state actors actively attempting (often successfully) to interfere with our elections. What makes you think putting it online wouldn't make that 1000x worse?
Not to mention you can't even go back and see what the people really voted. If someone sneaks a
into closed source code, you've got fuckery that will take a computer scientist to find, and no way to unfuck the election.
I prefer my paper ballot, thank you, though I'll allow it to be scanned by a computer, as long as the computer is checked for fuckery like the above first.
The voting machines that those votes are originally entered into are not connected to the Internet, they're on their own disconnected network, and for very good reason. Software is far from perfect, and putting voting software on the Internet would immediately make it a target from attackers all over the world, and they would absolutely be hacked and manipulated.
I worked in an election. The tabulations are very much uploaded into a main frame.
For record keeping purposes, sure, not as a means to conduct the actual election. In a lot of places, paper ballots are still manually counted. Most places have a Scantron-type device that scans your filled-in ballot, but those machines are not Internet-connected. If they are networked, they're on their own separate air-gapped network.
Not where I was working. 90 percent were electronically entered. And I didn't even work in the most affluent county in my state. Electronic voting is very prevalent.
The electronic machines used to cast* votes are not connected to the Internet.
I wonder how they are tabulated? And communication? I did work in an election btw
An air-gapped, non-Internet connected network, coupled with manual transfer of data via secure USB drives/SD cards with write blockers.
As a programmer I really really don't think this is an idea we're capable of implementing in a way that's safe/secure/etc.
See also: https://xkcd.com/2030/
You aren't the only programmer in the world
Yes, but I believe e-voting being a bad idea is the common opinion among not just programmers but cybersecurity professionals specifically as well.
I mean, you're wrong lol
So laughably wrong. It's a great idea because it puts the power in the people. It is the only equalizer left. The possibility of the outcome greatly outweighs the challenges to make it work.
There are plenty of cyber sensitive occupations that rely on the Internet and work. The fact that this one thing is "not possible" is like giving up without any effort whatsoever.
The problem isn't that it can't be done, the problem is that it can't be done without disruption.
If eVoting were a thing, how long do you think it would take for 4chan to completely fuck it up?
And I don't mean in a "In a stunning upset today, the new President is write in candidate Boaty McBoatface", I mean in a DDoS attack blocking ANYONE from voting.
Heck, even systems that expect mass traffic without interruption go down all the time like when a new game gets released, you think voting traffic is somehow immune to that?
Voting is too important to leave to an electronic system.
It's already done electronically. The information is just shifted to a different medium. Saying that it can't be done when it's already being done isn't factual.
The tabulation is done electronically, on machines with no internet connection.
Voting electronically involves opening a machine to the public internet and that way lies madness.
They most certainly have Internet connections. How else can they know who is in the system to vote? I have worked as an employee in the government that gives those to the sites for tabulations.
That's not the way it works. When you show up to vote, you aren't validated by the machine, you're validated by the poll worker before you even get to the machine.
All the machine does is collect the votes, then the votes are sent to a tabulation facility physically by removing the storage from the machine and manually carrying it to tabulation. There is no electronic connection or transfer of votes.
This is the same way voting was done non-electronically. Poll worker checks you in, gives you access to the voting machine, you punch your card, put the card in a slot. All the cards are collected and sent off for counting.
That is not how it works in the county I worked for. The process may be different from state to state. There most definitely is a scan with your registration and it confirms your identity and then casts your votes.
I'm not surprised though. There are so many different variants of voting within a state. States also manage those mechanics. States interpret many laws and implement many in different ways for a million different reasons. Then courts examine those.
I'm not wrong lmao. I didn't say it was impossible, I said the government is not capable of implementing it in a way that would be secure. Put up or shut up, don't just claim that I'm wrong because you said so lol
The importance of the service is also exactly why it would be one of the most attacked online systems in the entire world. Even relatively secure systems are hit with zero-day attacks that can entirely compromise them. The US government especially is technologically outdated and I wouldn't trust them to so much as install security updates.
I mean I know you think aren't. But you are. It's cool. You know programming to an extent. But there is PLENTY of evidence to show that you are. There are many other applications in use today that show it's feasible. It's like arguing the sky isn't blue because you have your sunglasses on. Sure. It's in your wheelhouse. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. It should be. It would equalize everything.
That's just rude lol, you know nothing about my experience. My personal opinion isn't even super relevant here though; if we look at the professional consensus, they tend to agree.
I haven't seen any evidence that you have any understanding of this topic at all. You keep saying we should do it because it would be good-- which it would be-- but wanting something to be easy doesn't actually make it easy. You say there's plenty of evidence; SHOW IT then if you're so confident! I'll even start, here's an article by the AAAS with sources: https://www.aaas.org/epi-center/internet-online-voting
It's not rude. It's factual. I don't need to be a programmer to know it's applications. I don't have to be a car engineer to know they transport people and where most go. It's absolutely egotistical to think you only know what a computer is capable of because you can program.
One more absolutely not.
Let's follow two votes. Vote #1 was cast in Colorado.
Vote 2 was cast in Louisiana.
I'm going to fight hard for my system, buddy. You can keep your internet voting.