I might help people because it makes me feel good, sure. But I might also do it because those are my values, long since established, and I try to live by said values. So it's about what following a self-imposed expectation, not about getting something. For some people, some of the time.

Similarly, the argument that "being selfless is selfish" is not useful and provably false. Just go ask people, and they'll tell you why they did things and how they felt. Then you have to argue that many of them are either lying or mistaken, which doesn't seem like a winnable argument.

[–] hikaru755@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

the argument that "being selfless is selfish" is not useful

Yes, that's my entire point.

and provably false

Depends on how you define "selfish". Again, that's exactly what I'm trying to demonstrate here. Reducing the definition of selfish to mean "getting something out of it" makes it meaningless because every decision is made in the hopes of getting something out of it in some way, even if it's obscure. To make it useful, you need to look at what someone is getting out of it in order to get to a useful definition.

[–] tomi000@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

In your ecample, doing something that aligns with your values still gives you something in return, for example a sense of accomplishment or pride. That was the point