this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2024
115 points (97.5% liked)
Europe
1466 readers
430 users here now
News and information from Europe πͺπΊ
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
(This list may get expanded when necessary.)
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.
founded 4 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This all doesn't matter if Ukraine can't win the war.
Russia needs to be able to produce enough weapons to wage war. That is also true for any potential war against EU members, such as the Baltic states or Poland.
Also Russia and Ukraine can both be defeated in the same peace deal. Just look at the British Empire and WW2. The UK one, but it lost its Empire.
Of course, but if Ukraine loses before Russia crumbles, it won't matter to Ukraine. No one knows how long it will take for Russia to crumble nor if it ever will. China, Iran, North Korea, and Turkey are all supporting it.
Erdogan recently said Russia should return Crimea, but is he willing to sanction Russia? Russia is running out of Yuan, but will China truly stop trading with Russia or will they just accept debt? It's a very complicated situation and if the West doesn't allow Ukraine to strike Russia with long range missiles nor provide enough weapons and ammunition to drive Russia back, Russia's economic woes don't matter. They don't matter if Russia wins the war.
What kind of peace deal are you talking about?
There are a lot of countries, which Russia wants to invade besides Ukraine. I mentioned a few and there are a lot more in the Caucasus and Central Asia. Even Ukraine would benefit, even in a total defeat. That would mean underground warfare against Russia and a weak Russia would be hurt badly by that. Ukraine is just much harder to control then Chechnya, if they do not want to be a part of Russia.
No, they mostly just trade with Russia. They are not sending aid. If Russia collapses Iran and North Korea would be unhappy, but they will not intervene. Turkey and China do not care at all. Both of them can benefit from it, if they play it right. I am just saying Central Asia and for China parts of the Russian Far East.
For example one, which freezes the current situation. Russia looses, as a victory was always to take all of Ukraine or at least the territories it claims to be Russian, which it does not control and Kursk. Ukraine also looses as it has already claimed victory would be taking back control over all territory, which is internationaly recognised as being Ukrainian. So both sides have been defeated. That is actually a very likely outcome.