Religions are coercive social structures. You cannot distinguish those doing it willingly from those corrected into "proper behavior". As such a civil society can permit neither.

Re: downvotes - no idea why it's not working, but your anger is obvious enough without it

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Christians are not obligated to give up sex or “all early possessions”. At most they’re just obligated to give up personal trinkets during lent and fund the church. My point is that there is no coercion within Islam to wear a hijab, kinda like how there is no coercion within Christianity to be a virgin.

People who want to oppress women will do it regardless of means. Islam is just an excuse. There are many atheists who use their moral code instead.

To distinguish them, just get their confidence and ask them in a safe environment.

[–] huginn@feddit.it 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

all earthly possessions

Matthew 6:19-34 and Luke 18:22-25

Pretty unequivocal: give up everything and serve God.

there is no coercion within Islam to wear a hijab, kinda like how there is no coercion within Christianity to be a virgin.

The fuck there isn't. Coercion in Christian sects is rampant. Your parents finding out you're not a virgin will have you disowned in plenty of Christian households.

People who want to oppress women will do it regardless of means

And people who want to murder will do it regardless of means. That doesn't allow us to throw up our hands and let murder cults exist. Instead we extirpate them, outlaw them, stamp them out both legally and culturally.

To distinguish them, just get their confidence and ask them in a safe environment.

Pragmatically speaking this is, unfortunately, the best we can hope for. I'm not talking about pragmatics here though: I'm talking about fundamentals. Theory. What is a truly polite society?

It's not one where religious coercion is allowed to fester.

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's a pretty bad misreading. These are about how material accretion is not to be valued too much, especially in comparison to kindness and serving God. (The latter story also says "If you wish to be perfect", not "you must do this to get there".)

Your parents finding out you're not a virgin will have you disowned in plenty of Christian households.

That's sad to hear. Even as an agnostic, I know nicer Christian sects.

That doesn't allow us to throw up our hands and let murder cults exist.

Most people of faith aren't those radical maniacs you see on ye olde telly. Radical [blank]s exist in nearly every field you can imagine, and since they're radical, they're gonna be vocal and take over all your anger-driven feed. To assert that all religions fester and allow hate simply isn't true. Radicals will turn to everything they can find to justify their stupid beliefs.

[–] huginn@feddit.it 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's not a misreading at all. In many fundamentalist sects (such as the one I left) that's the dogmatic truth of those verses.

Everything material is sinful and holding you back.

I have lived with and continue to love many religious people - that does not make them rational. That does not make their religious beliefs OK. With all the love in their hearts they still participate in evil and coercive control of others. They are particularly dangerous in that they believe in their heart of hearts that they are doing the right thing.

This is the reality of religion: it is dangerous, coercive, self propagating brain washing that forces people into shape. It creates panopticons. Window twitching neighbors that snitch and shun.

This is true of all religion. In Christianity it's true of southern baptist and Lutheran's and Christian scientists and episcopalians and Jehovah's Witnesses and 7th day Adventists and Mormons and Catholics and Orthodox and ...

[–] Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 1 points 2 months ago

I am truly horrified by what you had to endure. I understand, or at least think I may understand, why you feel this way. However, your experience is not universal to all people of faith.

Religion is very much compatible with day-to-day rationality, and most religions do not believe that one has to forsake everything; in fact, that fundamentalist sect still owns things, and they're just making up an excuse to steal. Propagating beliefs themselves is not coercive control; coercive control is coercive control.

It's just that since religion used to be universal, old filth found their justification in what they know and created their existing communities of control. That does not mean religion always lends itself towards more coercion. Belief in a greater purpose is a great rationale to endure and go on to create astonishing projects.