this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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Add Palestinians to that.
I mean, yes, but generally you don't find support of Palestinian genocide in leftist groups.
Depends on the country. In Germany too many "leftists" simp for Israel.
Noted for future reference. In the online anglosphere, I generally find self-proclaimed leftists almost always land on the side of Palestine over Israel.
They are called Anti-Deutsche (anti germans) or Anti-D for short and try very hard to mimic fundamental opposition while actually supporting Germany's foreign policy.
Still there are even anti-D anarchists for example who want all states to fall but Israel last. Everything bad about Israel is bad about all states so why bother with Israel. It's a rabbit hole, it's wild. But a purely German phenomenon for reasons
the political party i run with has issue with the slogan "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" as its voicing one side of the conflict, being propagandized by right wing Zionists furthering the divide of the working class of Israel. anyway i doubt many leftist use the slogan with ill-intent.
I dunno... many on the center-left? Yes, definitely! But don't give a false impression to @PugJesus@lemmy.world, hardcore leftists even here usually stick to the leftist Palestinian organizations.
Like the socialist Palestinian Popular Struggle Front, the communist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the marxist-leninist Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the social-democratic, secular Fatah or their umbrella organization, the broadly leftist, secular PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization)
Obligatory
Then there's the entire, fairly big "Antideutsch" movement that labels itself as "far left" and "antifascist" but is heavily licking Israel's boots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Germans_(political_current)
There is a lot of antisemitism and support for Hamas (which is a fascist group) among so-called leftists.
But maybe you've fallen into the same kind of trap as those that support Russia against Ukraine and deny the China is oppressing Uyghers.
What method do you use to determine whether you're falling for a fascist narrative?
i think they meant palestinian far lefty bros who think jews are bad. but ok.
Which Fascists are oppressing them
Israel
israel is fascist? Seems weird for the US to be supporting them...
under trump sure. But that's only under trump.
The Democrats have been working furiously on becoming the 4th reich, purely out of triangulation
mm yes tringle
Fighting fascism with fascism to prevent fascism. It should be their new slogan
Oh... yeah.. cause the US hasn't supported any fascist regimes at all in the last 80 years or so.. not at all /s
most of those have been millitant groups, not dissimilar to hamas, which people here seem to love supporting.
Yeah I'm sure everyone here loves hamas just because they criticize the apartheid state
judging by how many people seem to think that the democrats here are a literal fascists, i wouldn't be surprised if those people also think russia did nothing wrong, and that hamas is actually just a charity organization, or whatever wrong opinions people hold on things these days.
the alternative being that this is just doomerism which i don't believe.
You're building a strawman argument, putting words that have never been said in a widespread manner in people's mouths.
you are putting way too much faith in how much i give a shit about this comment thread lmao. I barely remember what the last comment is and i'm not even going to read it.
Then why even bother replying here? You seem rather invested for someone so "unbothered"
because i'm trying to gather in the field knowledge about the funny internet people feel about these problems. So far i'm learning that they're mostly helpless, and primarily bots. So that's cool.
What's your process of figuring out that they're bots? I'd be surprised if anyone cared enough about lemmy to invest in making bot accounts.
i pretty much blanket assume that an account posting liberal fascism shit with a likely trans acc that has cyrillic in the bio is probably not a real person. (nothing against trans people, i just assume that the vast majority of trans people are not natively russian, and those that are are are probably more concerned about the trump campaign.)
It's likely not perfect, but like, who the fuck else is posting anti anti-fascist shit like that. Republicans do it because they're insane. Democrats only do that because of israel palestine and it's fundamental integrity to their lifes existence for now. Outside of these people, i simply do not believe there are people that genuinely believe that the harris campaign is a more significant threat to democracy than the literal fascist party.
TL;DR if the account seems like it's shitposting it's probably shitposting, and if it's bio seems sus, it's probably sus. Aside from that post history is a good one along with account age, that account was fairly young as well iirc.
Although to be fair, it's probably not a bot account, and more likely a smurf/astroturfing account, but that's equivalent to a bot IMO. We've seen similar threads on other posts, either from hexbear alts or just straight up bots. ChatGPT disinfo has got to be some of the spookiest shit out there right now.
Well usa is known as the fascists of this century so…
i would say of the late 20th century, the 21st century is probably china, or perhaps russia. Considering they had an "ethnic cleansing" of their government. They seem like a pretty good bet.
China?? They haven’t invaded a country since 60 years ago. usa have invaded the whole Middle East during this century and currently fighting a proxy war in Europe
china doesnt need to invade another country to be all authoritarian over them. For one they have their own population to do that with. And secondly, they seem to be focusing much more on getting other countries to hold chinese debt, presumably in an effort to make them default such that they can cut really sleazy deals with them. Also china allies with north korea and russia, they have no need to directly invade a nation.
Also the proxy war in europe isn't a bad thing, that's a good thing, it's effectively a proxy war between europe, the US, and russia. Who broke their own treaty with ukraine. And is also doing warcrimes all over ukraine, unlike ukraine.
Projection. Westerners hold the vast majority of the debt of developing countries, which they leverage to gain control of their domestic policies and enact exploitative policies that extract as much wealth as possible while the countries themselves are unable to develop beyond being resource colonies. China frequently forgives the debts of developing countries and invests in actual infrastructure and development without making domestic policy demands.
Behaving that way is in line with China's self-interest, and a major reason why it's growing in global influence. They have to offer better deals in order to compete with the established monopoly of Western investment. The West is still operating in an arrogant and chauvinistic way, when countries don't comply with their demands, they either bomb them to smithereens (Libya) or they seize whatever assets are in their banks (Venezuela). While this may intimidate some countries into falling in line, it also pushes others right over to dealing with China, because they don't do things like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-trap_diplomacy#Domestic_Chinese_experience on some quick preliminary reading it seems like this is generally backed up though time will tell.
Regardless, china does still engage in predatory behaviors, especially with their military, they engage in super aggressive forms of power projection over the parts of the sea they consider "theirs" that other states don't agree with. As well as the numerous examples of chinese aircraft in international airspace causing problems.
even ignoring these two things, i wouldn't be surprised if this was a short term loss, long term gain expectation, not dissimilar from theories of venture capital funding.
They do occasional saber-rattling in their part of the world. The US does saber-rattling all over the world and is continuously engaged in much more than that, invasions, bombing campaigns, etc. The US spends more on the military than the next 9 countries combined and that's before taking into account foreign aid in the form of stuff like giving bombs to Israel. There is absolutely no comparison between the two.
Uh, yeah, that's exactly what the deals are about. It's an investment and they hope that the countries will develop and pay them back and they'll get a return. Helping countries develop and expanding their economic bloc is how they intend to grow and continue developing, and it's been working quite well for them, with more and more countries falling into their sphere of influence, or triangulating between the two instead of dealing with the West exclusively (especially middle-income countries, that don't get a lot of attention in the media). You say it as if it's a bad thing, but that sort of trade and investment is mutually beneficial and the most practical and proven pathway towards eliminating poverty.
China is on track to eclipse the US simply by winning the peace, while the US burns itself out on constant wars and conflicts to fuel the military-industrial complex. Tbh my biggest concern is that the US will see that and decide that the only way to maintain hegemony is to start WWIII, because it's invested so much into the military that that's increasingly the only area where it has an advantage.
China is ruled by a communist (far LEFT ideology) party doing socialist (LEFT) politics whereas fascism is a far RIGHT wing ideology, so they’re basically opposite ideologies.
Nazism (Germany) fascism (Italy) were far right wing ideologies, they basically killed communists (left ideology) for fun
There’re right authoritarian regimes and left authoritarian regimes. There also are fake/hidden “democracies” where their only two political parties are both of them controlled by the SAME entity in the background
ok so, i think people confuse the idea of communism, with the concept of lefty communism. There are two types of communism. True blue communism, early soviet union for example. And then what i like to refer to as "pseudo communism" later soviet union, and most other communist states, including china. Most people advocate for a more "true blue communism" which is a different thing.
secondly, most people like to compare between capitalism, and communism, with socialism being somewhere in the middle, where as i think it's much more accurate to summarize it separately. You have capitalism which is a big player, socialism (communism doesnt count), and then you have authoritarianism. Generally, as a state you exist somewhere in this triangle of economic ideals. You either have a relatively free economy, under capitalism, a collectively owned economy under socialism, and then a centrally owned and planned economy under authoritarianism.
The problem here is that china is more of an authoritarian capitalist state, than it is communist. It doesn't subscribe to any of the main tenant of communism as is blatantly evidenced by their society. However it does have more authoritarian polices, as evidenced socially and economically.
German nazism was actually done under the socialist party, the funny left leaning one. Fascism itself is apolitical, it doesn't care what side of the spectrum you're on, for example stalin might be considering a left leaning fascist. Generally fascism uphold right wing ideals as they tend to be the most simplistic, but that's more of a secondary force.