DarkCloud

Then he'll remain a danger to the world and probably do a lot of horrible things protecting himself, which will not be a good outcome for the west.

--- sorry for the wall of text

(Up to you whether you can be bothered reading it)

No offense, but when you say you believe in talking sense to people, have you been specifically occupying their rightwing spaces and trying to talk sense into them for the past ten years?

Most people haven't, those who have in an ongoing/consistent way, will understand it's not the community controlling the ideological messaging being posted repeatedly EVERY SINGLE DAY, the community is complicit in its brainwashing, but they're not the majority stakeholders or main sources of the crypto-fascist extremist economic Libertarianism currently posing as conservativism and "Classical (free speech) British Liberalism".

Ergo, violence isn't necessarily a constructive answer where you'd essentially be attacking people who are merely complicit in their own brainwashing (often self-indoctrinating for very personal and individual reasons) - leaving the question of: well what is the answer to these groups then?

I don't have a single answer or silver bullet, and it's probably upon the genuine left to now layout many answers on the table, including violent revolution, and parallel governments of mutual aid, but also, extending to culturally corrective efforts (consistent generational brigading/infiltration)... and even all the way down to the solutions of the establishment left.

But I think the big problem is that all of these can and will be folded back into the system. Incorporated. Worked back in, either by tyrants, profiteers, democrats, or PR agencies... So it becomes a question of - what parts of the system will proposed solutions necessarily extend, and will those extensions aid us to think outside the system, beyond it, beyond the current limitations of our own lives and societal limitations.

I would say mutual aid, and parallel governments/services probably do this. The system's responses to these tend to generate more rights, more service responsibilities, a better system, with more empathy.

Violence is better in times of direct fascist/reactionary violence, this might be more appropriate if Trump's fascism becomes violent again...

...and cultural solutions beyond PR campaigns, they can be valuable but without solid education in far left discourses, around unionism, marxism, anarchism, mutual aid, black liberationism and civil rights, labor history, schools like the Frankfurt school, ect. then people end up as establishment leftists....

...so it's also important to figure out how to extend resistances there too (resistances towell meaning but moderate leftists drifting right into centrism or further)...

But ultimately I figure it has to be about knowing how the system will react (and fold/co-opt answers presented into its self), and predicting how those reactions either extend problems or extend solutions/further possibilities...

...with the goal being the liberation of as many people from the struggles of class oppression under capitalism, as possible.

It's not an easy task, nor can it easily be thought about. Anyways, that's all I have.

Sorry again for the length, thanks and congrats if you got this far.

Part of the checks cut get reinvested in the propaganda that gets more checks cut. It's a whole corrupt system, as attested to by this list of think tanks backing someone like a Jordan Peterson:

https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/yl29i2/jordan_peterson_and_the_think_tanks/

...you can research most rightwing media and personalities and make lists and connections (some if Trump's for instance run through Roy Cohn, the original red scare and the mafia for instance).

It's likely the same for some leftwing individuals to. It's the reproduction of this culture, and the economic loops that perpetuate the toxicities of the current systems.

...and it will keep going long after Trump is gone.

I didn't write them off as overly dramatic, nothing of the sort. They're dangerous (for some of the reasons you point to, division), and it's a very well organized, well funded, and well oiled machine that keeps them dangerous. Funded by technocratic and Libertarian billionaires.

So I agree with you, that it's an economic issue, but we can't just all sit down and "fix it" (that's a pipe dream) - you can't sit down with those invested think tank billionaires to solve the problem any more than you can play Jenga with someone who wants to smash the tower before it's built.

It doesn't work that way.

No. The answer is no.

As long as they're not hallucinating, which anyone (including conspiracy theorists) can ask them to do. They they turn into conspiracy confirming machines.

Conservatives who are capable of good quality research, and honest self-reflection barely exist because those two qualities often destroy their affiliations to modern conservativism as it stands today.

So some become neocon-neoliberal hybrids, others become economic Libertarians or Fascists in sheeps clothing, but most, are just as they seem - people who feel betrayed and shut out by the prevailing liberalisms of the day (often personified in the form of an ex-wife, ex-boss, or minority on the street), and it's something they don't want to investigate or research honestly.

In fact, most conservatives of this "follower" ilk, are deeply and psychologically invested in their sickness, in maintaining their "honest dogma" as it explains past traumas and the state of their lives in easy and convenient ways.

Get them together in groups and it becomes a self-reenforcing system. Self-propagating. It's a self-sustaining set of problems and problem mindsets.

Some for conspiracy theorists, gets to be a real problem when they get a platform too.

It's not conservativism, conservativism has been captured by think tanks funded by oil and banking billionaires. They're framed conservativism, gutted it, and replaced its insides with Libertarianism (and sometimes technocratic fascism), as that's what gives them the lowest taxes, the most corporate welfare, union busting capabilities, and defends their wealth accumulation most efficiently.

They're not good members of society, this is demonstrated in Trump's fascism (which is based on Roy Cohn's fascism). It seeks to destroy society, the nation, and government.

This explains a demographic analysis without explaining anything meaningful or unique. The article could be about any post-Regan Republican campaign (such demographic analysis is used by all modern campaigns, on bith sides), so it wasn't a satisfying article. Combined with all the pop culture references, it comes off as quite immature and an unextraordinary explanation. Mediocre.

Propagandizing a proclaimed shift, and there being an actual shift are two different things.

Trump's side have proclaimed a shift which isn't actually a significant reality. Things change over a decade, but nothing notably significant has changed in terms of the over all running of the system, or the reproduction of culture/society.

It's mild progress being pushed by right wing propaganda as "civilization ending chaos".

The left have been asleep at the wheel since 2014 (this is the smaller of the two problems), and centrist neoliberals will not wake up because they're inculcated into the systems that keep them asleep at the wheel (this is the larger of the two problems, and likely includes establishment leftists like Kamala).

It's the problems of "the one dimensional man" where we can't even think outside of the systems we know to be the problem... and most people don't even make any serious efforts to try to.

The left didn't invade rightwing spaces, the spaces that have been propagandized to since 2014, and present credible arguments against the propaganda on a consistent basis.

So what you have is a decades backlog of brainwashed people Russia and others were paying to spread propaganda to.

It's not that complicated, and it will continue - even after Trump is gone. Koch, Musk, Thiel, Dan and Ferris Wilks, Zuckerberg, American billionaires are in this too, paying nominally conservative people to believe Libertarianism, tax evasion and defunding the nation in the name of "owning the crazy libs" is patriotism.

It's nuts. America is under constant attack, and don't expect the Establishment Liberal majority to fight back outside of election season.