this post was submitted on 07 May 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] ns1@feddit.uk 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Counterpoint: if you say you have a number of things, you have at least two things, so maybe 1 is not a number either. (I'm going to run away and hide now)

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

"I have a number of things and that number is 1"

[–] assa123@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I have a number of friends and that number is 0

[–] Cliff@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

I have a number of money and number is -3567

[–] CodexArcanum@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'd learned somewhere along the line that Natural numbers (that is, the set ℕ) are all the positive integers and zero. Without zero, I was told this were the Whole numbers. I see on wikipedia (as I was digging up that Unicode symbol) that this is contested now. Seems very silly.

[–] Magnetar@feddit.de 0 points 7 months ago

But is zero a positive number?

[–] dogsoahC@lemm.ee 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well, you can naturally have zero of something. In fact, you have zero of most things right now.

[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

How do you know so much about my life?

[–] SuperSpruce@lemmy.zip 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

0 is not a natural number. 0 is a whole number.

The set of whole numbers is the union of the set of natural numbers and 0.

[–] randint@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Does the set of whole numbers not include negatives now? I swear it used to do

[–] petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

That might be integers, but I have no idea.

[–] expr@programming.dev 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I just found out about this debate and it's patently absurd. The ISO 80000-2 standard defines ℕ as including 0 and it's foundational in basically all of mathematics and computer science. Excluding 0 is a fringe position and shouldn't be taken seriously.

[–] kogasa@programming.dev 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Ehh, among American academic mathematicians, including 0 is the fringe position. It's not a "debate," it's just a different convention. There are numerous ISO standards which would be highly unusual in American academia.

FWIW I was taught that the inclusion of 0 is a French tradition.

[–] xkforce@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

The US is one of 3 countries on the planet that still stubbornly primarily uses imperial units. "The US doesn't do it that way" isn't a great argument for not adopting a standard.

[–] RandomWalker@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I could be completely wrong, but I doubt any of my (US) professors would reference an ISO definition, and may not even know it exists. Mathematicians in my experience are far less concerned about the terminology or symbols used to describe something as long as they’re clearly defined. In fact, they’ll probably make up their own symbology just because it’s slightly more convenient for their proof.

[–] gens@programming.dev 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

From what i understand, you can pay iso to standardise anything. So it's only useful for interoperability.

[–] expr@programming.dev 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, interoperability. Like every software implementation of natural numbers that include 0.

[–] WldFyre@lemm.ee 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

How programmers utilize something doesn't mean it's the mathematical standard, idk why ISO would be a reference for this at all

[–] thewowwedeserve@feddit.de 0 points 7 months ago

Because ISO is the International Organisation for Standardization