this post was submitted on 01 Jun 2024
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Unpopular Opinion

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You identify a problem, you then call the attention of your family, friends and peers and really anyone who will listen to your rantings and ravings. After which if enough people support your claim to give confidence of legitimacy, you voice your concerns to authority. Or governing body or anyone that has been designated for the responsibility of resolving issues that arise within the realm of the aforementioned wrinkle in the rug. Only in the direst of need would would you and your conglomeration of dissatisfied citizenry shout, picket or otherwise raise a ruckus to your needs but life is such that needs be great at times. Go figure.

No, typically your movement starts with a letter campaign, phone calls and emails. If you're real lucky you might get a tête-à-tête with someone and if you're doubly lucky, on your way to resolution. It doesn't go down like that for most causes, most of the time it's all but ignored. Fear not seekers of change there is a way to avoid a fizzle out, get more people to join. Of course you could jump straight to hard disruption of daily life but letter writing, emails and phone calls are considered good places to start. Needs be great though and ignorance is willful and bliss. About now is a good time for ye ol' controlled rabble rousing... (it's a joke) but good intentions don't account for the actions of others though property damage doesn't trump a just cause. The bill on justification will come due and I expect to be satisfied. Feelings on rainbows don't meet my admittedly meager standards on letting your opinion be known, not that anyone asked.

There's not much recourse for your average person if the effects of your stance did not sway affections, unless that person is a multi-billion dollar corporation (cuz come on guys, corpos are people too) then you just drown the problem in money until it's buried or washed away to become someone else's problem. Most people are left with a problem unresolved and a pain in their chest that's not from the cuts, bruises or contusions that can accompany making your displeasure publicly known.

I would like to take this moment to tell you how stupid anyone is that intends to create change with the destruction of life that is not their own. I make an exception for self-immolation. If you believe in your cause so strongly that your only option is to extinguish your own flame in a dazzling display of sheer will. You get my respect for your force of determination if not your cause. The only 72 things anyone else gets though is in being blasted to 72 different dimensions of pain and shrapnel and good riddance too.

That is all to say that if you can't pay and you won't choose violence what other avenue is left to pursue?

Stop the machinations that allow people to remain willfully ignorant of the problem. I am sorry that you might be late to work, I'm sorry that couldn't get your triple pump whateverthefuck you're getting in a cup that makes you feel like the emptiness inside isn't so vast, I'm sorry you were delayed running those errands. I'm sorry for your death during a cardiac episode stuck in traffic. I am sorry. But to the point where your life has to stop in its tracks so you will listen, it's important. Some person decided to put their own life in danger to warn you that your own and those around you are also in danger. I'm not saying it is not a bitter pill.

Let us not forget that all of this is predicated on the assumption that when the piper cometh those ends were indeed justified by the means. What constitutes a worthy reason is beyond the purview of the arguments I'm laying forth. As for the eggs that are gonna get cracked, I don't mourn the loss of property only loss of life. In the many words I have used, I am saying that there is a reason the right to free speech and assembly are enshrined in places around the world and I believe in that reason. Whether or not those rights are protected in an equal and fair manner is a whole different can of worms.

tldr; I wrote this for amusement and for the play on words, doesn't mean I don't believe it. By default I care more about my own bodily waste than I'm going to care about your reactionary opinion. Exceptions will be made for adding to the conversation, upgrade to better-than-what-I'm-scooping-out-of-the-litter-boxes-at-home levels of interest.

I thank you for joining me in this ramble. Have a wonderful day.

edit: just want to give a couple special shoutouts, I won’t name names but you’ll know if I’m talking about you. First, to my peeps that are taking this personally, offensively or otherwise as an insult; fucking good, you need to face uncomfortable topics more often and I’m glad I could be there for you and share in this together. Second, to my peeps who found themselves vindicated in their original positions; the same to you as the first group. This has absolutely been my pleasure so thank you if you voted or voiced an opinion. Going to sleep for now but if you call me back to this topic with something good I’ll try to catch you in the morning.

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[–] Hello_there@fedia.io 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The only acceptable way to protest is in designated free speech zones located out of sight so that nobody can hear or see you.
That was exactly what MLK and other civil rights leaders did.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I really wonder sometimes what'd happen if modern protestors started staging bus takeovers or restaurant occupations

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

It depends. Part of the reason for the bus protests and sit-ins was precisely because those were the segregated spaces that they were protesting. So if your protest doesn't specifically have anything to do with buses or restaurants, you'll probably end up confusing people.

In the absence of a modern day analog, might be better to just pick larger public spaces to protest in where you'll attract more attention than random bus routes or restaurants.

[–] Veraxus@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I agree in principle, but if you put people in danger or could put people in danger, I consider that crossing the line of the Golden Rule of Liberty. That includes trapping people on highways and bridges.

So while protests can and should be disruptive and inconvenient, they must never endanger the general public.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

See the thing is that most protests that adopt these tactics do permit emergency services to cross the picket. We just hear more about the ones who don't because reasonable behavior doesn't make for click getting headlines.

[–] Veraxus@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Trapping people is harm. It’s kidnapping at best, and putting lives in danger at worst. “Allowing emergency vehicles through” is not good enough. If the protest is structured in a way that the public needs to take a different/longer route, that’s one thing… but if someone is trapped by such a takeover with no way out, that is an unacceptable infringement on the public’s natural rights; particularly the right to not be trapped or imprisoned (in either person or property).

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Trapping people is harm

This I agree with. Am I wrong or would it be dead simple to do a protest on a highway where it doesn’t trap folks and causes no harm? Like two steps:

  • hold it not on a bridge and just after an exit
  • allow any/all emergency vehicles through, coordinating with them as much as possible

Obviously this is still a major inconvenience, which is good per the whole point of protesting. Perhaps I need to read more on protest history and strategy as I know there is a whole body of literature on the subject.

[–] Veraxus@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

That’s exactly the right idea!

[–] Audrey0nne@leminal.space -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

There’s no disputing that it’s harm but if the harm caused is less than the harm that is possible then the actions are worth taking.

[–] Slotos@feddit.nl 1 points 3 months ago

I could write a long tirade on the terrifying flaws of this logic, but instead I’ll just share a reminder that barely anyone is the villain of their own story.

[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago

If you're just a person in your car, the protest has no way to know you may be having an emergency

[–] iconic_admin@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Good post. I completely disagree with this opinion. Stoping traffic and holding up the lives of ordinary people is attacking the wrong target. We’re all out here in traffic, not because we want to be, but because we’re struggling to survive. Not all of us are on a frivolous trip to star bucks mate. Take your grievances to the court house, city hall, or a police station, hold up those people’s lives, shout at them. I have to pick up my kids before the daycare closes. Don’t protest at me, I’m not the one voting on legislation that keeps people in debt, funds foreign wars, and keeps people from having access to healthcare. Those of us stuck in traffic are not willfully ignorant of any of these problems, we’re just fucking helpless to do anything about them because the system is designed to keep us that way. Protesting on highways doesn’t accomplish what I assume is your goal, to educate people and get them to agree with you. It just makes them not like you and not want to support you in your cause.

[–] kugel7c@feddit.de 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You know the goal is not to educate but to apply pressure sometimes. Everyone feels if an inner city is continually and or randomly brought to a standstill even in part. The point is to hurt, and if things stand still you just sit there in your car while the business and government around you start to lose "productivity" or in other words control. If this is done enough they have to change their behavior because we will keep going and they will continue to lose control. That's the hope at least. And for climate specifically what good does the childcare do if the world your children grow up in stays on it's current course on climate. I sorta assume you know all this as well. It's fine for you to want to live your life and for stuff to be annoying, just don't disparage those who just want to lash out because lashing out is a perfectly reasonable reaction. Not for you maybe, but for the once that have that reaction right now, know they are fighting for you as well.

[–] iconic_admin@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What I’m saying is don’t lash out at me. I’m not the problem. Organize in a Walmart parking lot if you want to lower “production”. You don’t think that if you protest and block people from entering a court house that you won’t be on the news? Take your complaints to the people you’re complaining to. As for the climate, I’m an electrical engineer. I push for solar power on every project I’m involved in and get it to happen about 80% of the time. I’m doing what I can to actively work on the problem, so please don’t protest on the highway and let me get to work.

[–] kugel7c@feddit.de 0 points 3 months ago

Lashing out is by default at everything, there isn't target selection really, because if you select specific targets you open yourself up to increased resistance.

There is nothing left other than that this need for change, and that you have some bodily power to fight for it.

You are trying to argue on civility, cooperation, and still raising awareness, the protesters have determined there is no civility, and there is no one listening and acting on it, so why should they care. They specifically are complaining to everyone, maybe they specifically want to hurt, damage, or sabotage everything.

The highway might be the most destructive target depending on where you are, precisely because people like you who cost 100s of dollars per hour, and shipments, and everyone is stuck. Like the defect is diffuse, but you should know that the more you control the more it ultimately hurts if things go wrong (not in the bodily but financial sense).

It's great that you do what you can and you likely have a lot more power if you can push for things within the structures you are in, but you must realize their ultimate power is in their bodys and in what destruction they can cause with them, because they don't have those structures, that agency, but of course not the pressure and work that comes with it either.

The Walmart parking lot shuts down 1 Walmart, the courthouse 1 courthouse, the right street shuts down 10s maybe hundreds of places (at least partially), it binds more police and personnel, and it's hard for the city to prepare for. It's the right move if your mindset is to cause damage, which I think is just as reasonable as trying to use the power you have inside of the systems that already exist, especially for people that don't have that much power.

What I'm trying to say is maybe you understand how you percive the world, but there is legitimate ambiguity and differences of circumstance that lead to also completely normal, but different from yours, perceptions of the world, and that maybe instead of trying to defend yourself you just might need to accept that. Like there should be room to have compassion even for people that don't have compassion for you because they are still human beings.

[–] slurpinderpin@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Your freedoms extend only so far as they aren’t encroaching upon others freedoms. Blocking my freedom of movement included

[–] Audrey0nne@leminal.space 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Until individual freedom encroaches on the others is right. Move, be moved or lose all freedom. Joining costs only the freedoms you’re willing to sacrifice, turning away costs only what you’re willing to take with you.

You and I won’t agree but I appreciate your point of view.

[–] slurpinderpin@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say there lol. You don’t have a right to block people from driving their car to work, under any circumstances. Period.

It’s not justified, no matter what the cause you’re trying to bring awareness to. It’s selfish.

[–] Audrey0nne@leminal.space 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Selfish is matter of perspective. Selfish to impose collective will on the individual or selfish to impede progress for the masses in the name of personal freedom. Something has to give, someone is going to lose.

[–] slurpinderpin@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No, I don’t get to care about any of that bullshit, because I need to get to work so that I can feed my family. So it’s great that you have some hill you want to die on, but my family will die if you stop me from getting to work. See?

[–] Audrey0nne@leminal.space 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I understand your position but respectfully your family is as important to me as my hypothetical cause is to you.

[–] slurpinderpin@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

"Your cause" is some macro thing, and blocking my car will have zero effect in achieving whatever you're looking to achieve. My family is all that maters to me. And blocking my car will just result in you getting run over. So don't do it

What an idiotic argument

[–] Audrey0nne@leminal.space 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Zero effect on you but not the person sitting next to you or the one behind you. If you are willing and able to crush one or several people under your vehicle for the sake of your precious family. Do so. The person impeding your path needs to be alright at that possibility.

[–] Jako301@feddit.de 0 points 3 months ago

Zero effect on you but not the person sitting next to you or the one behind you.

This sounds like you think you could convince anyone of your cause by doing this, but that's just wishfull thinking. The only favor you gain is from people already supporting said cause, everyone else is somewhere in the range of mildly annoyed to absolutely fuming.