this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
76 points (98.7% liked)

No Stupid Questions

35848 readers
1254 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I recall that subdomains are their own record inside a DNS, which would imply that anyone can claim that their server is a non-existent subdomain of the real domain

all 25 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Draghetta@lemmy.world 83 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There are a lot of answers here but I feel they mostly miss OP’s point so I’ll try my own:

What stops a scammer from HTTPS certifying foobar.reputable.com is the trust system.

Anybody can create a certificate on their machine for anything within seconds, even you could create a certificate for www.google.com. The problem is that you, as an issuer, are not trusted by anybody.

Browsers and operating systems are released with a list of issuers that are considered trustworthy, so if you want your certificate to be recognised it has to come from one of these, not from you.

All of these issuers are in the list because they have been individually vetted, and are known to do their due diligence before issuing certificates, so they would not give you that cert unless they know that the bank domain or subdomain belongs to you, and the technical means to achieve this have been explained in other answers.

But if one of these issuers went rogue, or if you hypothetically hacked into their certification authority, then indeed nothing would stop you from obtaining a valid and recognised certificate for foobar.bank.com.

This is why for example Trustcor was removed from this list in 2022: from that position it would be trivial for a certificate authority to allow third parties to spy on people.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

And when you are requesting a certificate for foobar.bank.com, your certificate request must come from an authorized email address at bank.com. That is also where your issued certificate would be sent. So, in order to get a certificate from a third party issuer, you have to:

  • Control the domain registration at the level just above the TLD (I don't know how it works for co.uk, probably similar though)
  • Have access to a mailbox at the domain, where that mailbox has an address which is authorized to request certificates (this would be configured in the domain registration)

Could a malicious actor compromise that mailbox in a way that allows them to request a certificate and then receive it? It's not impossible, but it would be a huge effort with a small payout. Honestly, if you've got access to that mailbox, you don't want to give yourself away by making false certreqs through it. You want to just exfiltrate as much data from it as you can. There's certainly something way more valuable in there.

[–] MartianSands@sh.itjust.works 16 points 3 days ago (3 children)

your certificate request must come from an authorized email address at bank.com

That isn't true in general. In fact, it can't be.

It might be policy for most cases from the well-known certificate authorities, but it's not part of the protocol or anything like that.

If it were, then it would be impossible to set up your mailserver to begin with because you could never get a certificate for mail.bank.com

[–] Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Yeah, letsencrypt doesn't do this for example. They do ask for an email address, but that's just for expiry notices.

They do require you control the domain, and run it on the server the DNS record points to. When using certbot at least.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 4 points 3 days ago

I was wrong again today.

[–] LordCrom@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You don't need a https cert for a Mail server, fyi

[–] MartianSands@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Really? They don't use TLS at all? That sounds hilariously insecure

[–] chameleon@fedia.io 2 points 2 days ago

The email ecosystem is changing in recent years but yeah, it's best to expect that there is at least one opportunity for any given email to be sent over the internet unencrypted. MTA-STS has been slowly changing the landscape but adoption isn't going all that great.

[–] BartyDeCanter@lemmy.sdf.org 72 points 3 days ago

To claim a subdomain in the DNS system you have to have the domain first.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 29 points 3 days ago

I recall that subdomains are their own record inside a DNS

Well, not a record, but a zone. A subdomain is its own zone. There are additional DNS records that support a separate zone though.

which would imply that anyone can claim that their server is a non-existent subdomain of the real domain

False. The person wanting control of the subdomain must be delegated control from the parent domain. Owners of the parent domain don't just hand that out to anyone. The mechanism is called DNS Delegation.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 22 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The way DNS works, each dot is authoritative.

So if you want the IPv4 for scam.legitco.com, your computer contacts the authoritative DNS for “com” and asks it for the address for legitco’s DNS. You then contact legitco.com and ask it for scam’s IP. Which it won’t have.

This is simplified, because in reality there’s DNS caching and pooling, but that wouldn’t affect your scenario. Although, cache poisoning IS a thing, as is BGP hijacking where the IP of the DNS itself may get redirected to a different machine.

[–] redpotatoes@lemm.ee 16 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

They'd need a certificate authority to issue the certificate, and the victim's browser would have to trust that authority.

Edit: and the scammer would need to control the domain DNS server to use the subdomain, like another reply said, so the certificate alone wouldn't help much.

[–] Phen@lemmy.eco.br 13 points 3 days ago

Something in the way of "an apartment key is useless if you can't get into the building".

[–] Tarogar 2 points 3 days ago

There were some rather in detail answers already to which I could add. But instead I am going with a more simple answer that is hopefully also good.

Basically, bad actors want to stay undetected if possible. Like staying in dark places with dark clothing and not making noise. trying to get your own subdomain is more like wearing a high Vis jacket, having Christmas lights on you and broadcasting your presence with a loudspeaker with something like "catch me if you can!" on repeat.

Or even simpler: getting detected is bad for bad actors, doing that is one great way to get detected, they know that so they don't do that.

Or metaphorically: a drop of water in the ocean won't get noticed, rain in the desert will.

At the end of the day it's not about what you can do but if you should do that.