Good, the only way for the Palestinian people to prosper is for them to get rid of Hamas completely.
this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2024
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And then what happens? They live under the Israeli and American puppet that is the PNA?
The Netanyahu government has spent decades legitimizing Hamas, preferring a Palestinian leadership that helps them justify their ethnic cleansing efforts instead of one that's peaceful and wants to negotiate, e.g. the Palestinian Authority.
What the palestinian authority do to pressure israel to not expand illegal settlements?
The palestinian,authority is not praceful it's submissive to israel
Hamas wouldn't be needed if Israel didn't want to violently remove every person in Gaza.
They're still not needed. Unless you think Oct 7th saved Gazan lives. Or that future attacks on the IDF will save any Gazan lives.
Ir definitely hurt Israel on the international stage. Whether you think it's worth it aside, unless something really big changes the only way Palestinians will get their freedom is by forcing Israel to display their genocide as obviously as possible until they get the South Africa treatment. Peaceful resistance of settler colonialism simply doesn't and has never worked.
I appreciate the sentiment, but somebody should've pointed out to them how many genocides we've stopped vs how many we've allowed to happen over the past half century.
I don't think Oct 7th was about Palestinian freedom, at any rate. I don't think hamas leaders living in the UAE give a rats ass about the survival of Gazan citizens. They're just another tool to be taken advantage of. If hamas was really interested in Palestinian freedom, they would have granted elections in the region they controlled.
I appreciate the sentiment, but somebody should've pointed out to them how many genocides we've stopped vs how many we've allowed to happen over the past half century.
I'm not sure I get the point. Who's "we" and what did they do?
If hamas was really interested in Palestinian freedom, they would have granted elections in the region they controlled.
Hamas definitely wants power, that's for sure. I'm not saying they're a good government. But Palestinian freedom from Palestinians and Palestinian freedom from Israel are two completely different things. Hamas is definitely authoritarian, but they also genuinely want freedom for Palestine. Their actions over the past 20 years can only point to that conclusion.
I think there are other possible conclusions that are less about anything good and more about destroying perceived enemies.
When I say we, I'm speaking as an American, and more generally talking about the broader world. We stepped in in Kosovo, we stepped in with the Yazidis. Far more often, though, the world does not police genocide attempts. It protests them, tries to apply the international justice system to the perpetrators, but does not take strong measures to halt the killing.
Here's a list for the past 24 years:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history_(21st_century)
Generally speaking, we do not police the world, and instead leave local affairs in the hands of whatever country they are happening in, for the vast, vast majority of countries. This makes any strategy to try to halt a genocide by appealing to the world unlikely to succeed. Netanyahu knows this, and is probably counting on it. While I support a Two State Solution, I don't think this is good strategy for accomplishing it, and is far more likely to accelerate the destruction of the Palestinian people.
I don't see hamas as freedom fighters at all. I see them as misguided jihadists with an effective propaganda wing and a savvy sense for politics.
I think there are other possible conclusions that are less about anything good and more about destroying perceived enemies.
I'm not talking about those actions. Hamas has participated in too many good faith negotiations, both with Israel and the PNA, for an organization that only cares about its own existence. See for example: 2013-2014 unity government, 2008 ceasefire, 2012-2013 ceasefire.
While I support a Two State Solution, I don't think this is good strategy for accomplishing it, and is far more likely to accelerate the destruction of the Palestinian people.
Then what do you suggest instead?
I don't see hamas as freedom fighters at all. I see them as misguided jihadists with an effective propaganda wing and a savvy sense for politics.
I mean they produce results. You can think there are better ways (I don't see them, but maybe they exist), but you can't argue with results.
The results are exactly what I'm concerned with. As I said, I think the result for the Palestinian people is going to be a worsening of the situation for Palestinians. Not a bettering. More dead and less rights. Not more rights and freedoms.
That said, I do not have any ideas for how to actually accomplish a two state solution.
I also don't see how engaging in good faith negotiations automatically makes them working for a good cause. Anyone can engage in negotiations any time it benefits them to do so.
As I said, I think the result for the Palestinian people is going to be a worsening of the situation for Palestinians.
So here's the core issue: Palestinians will never earn their freedom out of Israeli goodwill. Any gains will have to be made in spite of Israel's insistence that they're entitled to all of Palestine. No matter what method you pick, things will have to get worse before they get better. This is independent of whether this particular method will work or not.
That said, I do not have any ideas for how to actually accomplish a two state solution.
Exactly. What Hamas is doing is ugly, but they (and Palestinian resistance as a whole) are doing what they can in an impossible situation. Of course this is aside from the dictatorship aspect; they should definitely stop doing that. Anyway what I'm trying to say is: There's only one way forward for Palestinians and it's to force Israel to keep destroying Western goodwill until it's all gone. They're doing a good job on that department, which is what I was referring to as "results". Remember that 2024 is the first time Palestine becomes an election issue in the West in 20 years. What Israel lost in this genocide cannot be underestimated.
I suppose I wish that destroying western goodwill was a viable way to halt a genocide.
They’re codependent shitheads
What Palestinian people? You mean the refugees who will have no homeland once Israel annexes it all?
No, it's when israel stop colonizing the west bank and lift all it'a control on gaza
A good life in a ridiculous blockade?
What choice do they have at this point... Hamas is the only choice for them, unless they are willing to try their chances with Waffen-IDF
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The man in the video is beside himself, a mask of anguish radiating through his bloodied face.“I am an academic doctor,” he says, “I had a good life, but we have a filthy [Hamas] leadership.
Four-fifths of Gaza’s population is displaced, often moving between temporary shelters.And law and order has broken down in places, partly as a result of Israel’s policy of targeting Gaza’s security forces - not just the official Hamas internal security service, but also the community police responsible for street crime.As control has waned, criminal gangs have thrived, looting neighbourhoods and aid convoys; and private security companies - some run by powerful local families - have emerged.
One staff member from an aid organisation operating in Gaza described "absolute chaos at street level" and "a state of anarchy", saying that civilian order had completely broken down as a result of the Israeli policy.Israel’s prime minister has repeatedly vowed to continue the war until Hamas’s military and governing capabilities are destroyed.But some aid agencies - in both northern and south areas of Gaza - have also reported regular checks on their activities by local Hamas officials, and videos are frequently circulated of unofficial Hamas security forces shooting and beating those caught looting.One well-placed source told the BBC that dozens of people had been killed by Hamas in bloody score-settling with other local groups, after Israeli troops withdrew from one area.Fear of criticising Gaza’s leaders might have lessened, but it hasn’t gone, so it is still hard to accurately gauge, beyond individual testimony, how far support for the group is shifting.Some, like 26-year-old Jihad Talab, still strongly support Hamas.
Displaced from the Zeitoun area of Gaza City with his wife, daughter and mother, and now sheltering in Deir al Balah, he said the group was not responsible for their suffering.“We must support [Hamas] because it’s the one working on the ground, the one who understands the battle - not you or I,” he said.
A regular poll carried out by a West Bank-based think tank, the Palestinian Centre for Policy and Survey Research, suggests that most people in Gaza still blame Israel and its allies for the war, rather than Hamas.The latest survey in June found that almost two-thirds of Gazan respondents were satisfied with Hamas - a rise of 12 points from December - and that just around half would still prefer Hamas to run Gaza after the war ends, over any other option.These results differ from several accounts given to the BBC, including from a senior Hamas official who privately acknowledged that they were losing support as a result of the war.These glimpses through chinks in the media blockade around Gaza can never give a full assessment of the situation.
International journalists are barred by Israel and Egypt from reporting on the situation there first-hand.What is clear is that Hamas remains very sensitive to public opinion.Strikingly similar messages regularly appear on certain social media platforms to justify its actions, often apparently in response to criticism at home.A source familiar with Hamas told the BBC there was an organised international network to co-ordinate social media messaging for the group.After Israeli families released a video showing the moment female soldiers were kidnapped by Hamas units on 7 October, some in Gaza questioned whether targeting women during war was in line with Islamic teaching.In response, several pro-Hamas social media accounts put out similar messages insisting that soldiers - male or female - were justified military targets, and saying the unit had been involved in shooting Gazan protestors during demonstrations six years ago.Criticism of Hamas is growing sharper, and long-buried divisions over Hamas rule in Gaza are becoming clear.Out of the destruction left by Israel’s battle with Hamas, a new war is emerging: a battle for control of public opinion within Gaza itself.
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