this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2024
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184
Video appears to show gang-rape of Afghan woman in a Taliban jail (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 3 days ago by shish_mish@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world
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[–] SlothMama@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

It's hard for westerners to understand honor based moral codes, but that's exactly how it works. You can disgrace someone's honor by doing bad things to them and it's not really a fault thing, it's more about protecting honor and it's preservation a virtue.

This is how honor killings work, it's part of systems designed to restore individual or family honor by killing someone who is disgraced.

There are several models of morality, not just the individualist morality models we understand intuitively.

[–] footoro@sh.itjust.works 68 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Absolutely horrifying to imagine the situation of women in Afghanistan right now and especially women like in this article. The Taliban are crazy monsters.

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Coming soon to a country near you.

[–] footoro@sh.itjust.works 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

What do you mean with that? Who do I need to look out for :/

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

fascists are gaining ground all around the world. people love to point to situations like this where colonizers destroy a country and authoritarian regimes rise from the chaos/power vacuum left behind, but then they turn around and willingly vote for fascists because of their own bigotries, not realizing they're asking for the same shit without the circumstances that led to it elsewhere. it's wild.

[–] footoro@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago

Okay I couldn’t agree more with that.

[–] CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.world 37 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Imagine being so fucking stupid that you rape women, record the rape on a shitty smartphone, and you actually think that video works as blackmail...against the women. Alright, bet. Maybe it does, but the premise is just absurd.

"You stop talking about us being pieces of shit, or we'll widely share documented evidence of us being pieces of shit."

Take every man in the video, and the guy recording. Line them up. Shoot them in the head. Oh and be sure to record it on a shitty smartphone, or don't, nobody cries when an asshole dies.

[–] MojoMcJojo@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago

In their culture the woman and her family are blamed if she is 'disgraced'. Her family is ostracized by other families in the community, making it harder for the men to find or keep jobs and do business, and the social connections of the mother's or other women in that family will be shunned making it difficult to find support during times of distress like illness, pregnancy and births, and even aquirimg food. Marrying off kids to other families will become more difficult if not impossible potentially ending the family line. The community support centers, or mosques, will turn them away. Siblings and relatives will distance themselves. If you want to destroy a family, destroy their women.

In childish terms, they now have cooties, 'ew get away from me'. I don't put it that way to be insensitive, I only intend to help some understand. Kids have a way of getting to the core of our social rules in order to understand how to navigate them.

[–] RazorsLedge@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

What do you mean by "alright, bet"?

[–] HappyTimeHarry@lemm.ee 5 points 2 days ago

"Alright, sure"

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz 6 points 2 days ago

Omg why would Biden do this?!

[–] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 42 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Is this the so called morality police?

[–] ZombieMantis@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago

No, this is the Taliban of Afghanistan. The Islamic Republic of Iran has Morality Police. A different flavor of terrible.

[–] Belastend@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That's an iranian thing.

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

No, it's a religious fundamentalist thing and is hardly unique to Iran.

If anything, the Iranian version is relatively more moderate then their counterparts in places that practice forms of Sunni fundamentalism like Saudi Arabia, or Afghanistan.

Not trying to pretend the Iranian morality police are good, or reasonable, but relative to those other two examples, they aren't as bad. Which is saying something, since they are clearly awful in their own right.

Although to be fair, it might be less philosophical or theological reasoning that account for those differences, and just more the practical reality that Iranian women generally have more rights than those in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.

[–] Belastend@lemmy.world -4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

LuL, absolutely not more moderate. Saudi arabian morality police hasnt beaten someone to death in the last years, as far as i am aware. I did not knkw the Taliban called their force by the same name.

edit: You guys understand the difference between morality police and normal police right?

[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] Belastend@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Thats not the morality police. Thats a regular old political assasination.

Morality Police tries to enforce "societal norms" such as the hijab and not showing public affection.

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 1 points 3 days ago

This is how they find their wives

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 26 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (4 children)

Oh, I got an idea. Let's bomb the shit out of them, including a bunch of weddings, reinvade, and install another heroin kingpin as President.

Look, the Taliban is shit and these stories are truly horrific, but where was the coverage of Afghanistan the last 10 years?

Whenever I read these stories, all I see, aside from the obvious human misery and evil, is a media class that is continually trying to rewrite history to somehow justify the failure that was the 20 year occupation, and discredit the withdrawal.

I hope this woman gets justice and I hope things improve for women in Afghanistan. But I also want the Western audiences not to be the blinded by the sinister intent that is behind a lot of the Western Afghanistan media coverage.

Not because they should dismiss this women's story, or those like hers, but so they don't forget what a failure the NATO adventure in Afghanistan was. So they don't believe that the next war, should go on forever, or that expeditionary military force and occupation can be used to improve women's rights.

[–] Belastend@lemmy.world 20 points 3 days ago (1 children)

things wont improve for women in Afghanistan, as long as the Taliban are in power. I hope thats clear.

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 14 points 3 days ago (6 children)

.....and how many more years of military occupation would have prevented that?

[–] boreengreen@lemm.ee 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

A generarion or two. If you invade; you better be prepared to build the state as well.

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 days ago (3 children)

I don't even know where to begin with the levels of idiocy contained in your remark.

Like, do I start with the realities of how Western PMC mineral extraction fed into the cycle of extremism and poverty, the problems inherent with trying to use foreign military occupation to create a functioning centralized state out of a tribal society who's only a nation because colonial powers drew lines on maps, or just the raw racism of believing that the white saviors should invade and occupy poor brown countries because we have to show those savages how to be better people.

[–] YeetPics@mander.xyz -5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Lmao are you high rn? I swear it's always a huge invented argument/event with you fine folks.

We left, the Taliban took over. This woman got raped and blackmailed in a Taliban jail. After the US left. A jail ran by the Taliban. The taliban's jail. The jail which was ran by the Taliban. The jail ran by the Taliban which wasn't being ran by the US.

But go on about how western racism is the problem here lmao. The issue I'm seeing is prisoners getting raped, but what TF do I know 🤷

If that's how Taliban jails are operated it would be super racist of me to deem that unsafe, unethical or even wrong. I'll choose to be open and accept that Taliban jails are for raping and blackmailing because I am a man of culture.

[–] j_overgrens@feddit.nl -3 points 2 days ago

Afghanistan did not arise as a result from colonial powers. That's false and completely ignores the self determination of Afghans.

Also, the stuff you're saying about how the country was just a simple, tribal place is actually very hurtful. Borderline racist.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Let's start with how it's racist to stop religious fundamentalists from abusing women. This should be fun.

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Just a wild guess here, but I take it that you never got very good marks for reading comprehension. But whatever, I'll answer your bad faith question:

The racism is ignoring all of the ways in which colonial powers have fucked, refucked, and then triple fucked, the collection of tribal regions known as Afghanistan, which only exists as a nation state because of colonial powers drawing politically convenient lines on maps.

All while pretending that religion, and not the colonial conflict legacy is the root cause of these problems. Because admitting that colonialism is why we're here, isn't a very good narrative for selling the next war.

So great, now it's the white Savior's moral obligation to fix the problems that these brown people created all on their own, and definitely did not happen as a result of over a century of colonial violence , resource exploitation, and constant warfare.

And not for nothing, but you also clearly don't have a clue about the crimes against humanity level shit that happened during the occupation.

So stop and think, why all this coverage now, and not for the last decade of occupation?

Manufacturing consent for the next foreign war.

[–] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Unfortunately you're basically highlighting the reason that propaganda like this works: immediacy bias.

This story, and the idea of the video, of the woman being raped is immediately visible.

The historical context surrounding this story, and the political context of its dissemination, is not visible. All the stories that were neglected by the media that is cynically using this current story are not immediately in front of us.

It's hard for people to step out of that immediate reaction because it feels like the story they just heard is happening in front of them. We're not mentally built for a global news environment where news stories can be cherry picked for their desired impact.

It's ironic that something called "immediacy bias" is being exploited by the media, when immediate literally means "without media". Maybe in this case it should be called the immediacy illusion.

[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world -5 points 2 days ago

All while pretending that religion, and not the colonial conflict legacy is the root cause of these problems.

The taliban is a bunch of woman abusers because of...colonialism?

See I knew this would be fun, tell me another one

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee -1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You're vastly oversimplifying.

Afghanistan as we know it was created by Pashtuns, the majority ethnicity in Afghanistan back then in 1747 (A large chunk of Tajiks settled in North Afhghanistan fleeing the Red Army, that's why they're so numerous now). It's already post-colonial, in the sense that it's not part of Persia (or Greece) any more and avoided becoming Russian, it fought for its independence. Saying "it only exists because it's convenient to colonial powers" is a fucking insult.

You're erasing their own struggles and achievements for your own messed-up white saviour complex, "Oh poor brown people are poor and behave like assholes that must be because we did it".

No, colonial conflicts did not instil misogyny in Afghanistan, least of all during the Soviet or US invasion. That's a mixture of ancient tribal values reinforced by convenient interpretations of Islam. The US could certainly have supported nicer people than the Mujahideen to fuck with the Soviets trying to colonise but it's not like Afghanistan was a beacon of progressivism before, on the contrary. Some enlightened absolutism in Kabul, yes, the Royals got around and studied abroad, everywhere else, very much not.

If you ask me the mistake the US made, big-picture, was to not arming women.

[–] Corvidae@lemmy.world -4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Probably more than a few generations. The U.S. failed to deal with the Islamic religion other than giving education to females. The entire culture of the area would need to be changed, and that means mitigate aspects of a radical religion. The U.S. was probably unwilling to do that due to its freedom of religion philosophy.

[–] statist43@feddit.de 7 points 2 days ago

Bro. The way the US treated afgahnistan doesn't help people to look up to what the US has in mind for the country...

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[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I feel you. Been fighting that war half my life.

Counterpoint. This horrific story could emotionally trigger and activate anger in those who've never been exposed, as horrible as it is after all this time.

Am I naive?

[–] statist43@feddit.de 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

So people shouldn't know about war crimes, so people wo go to unnessecary wars and kill wont get triggered?

Whats that shit? Don't fucking go abroad to kill people then?

[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Wrong turn big dog. I believe we're on the same team here.

I'm suggesting that constant reminders bring truth to light and respective responses to found truth. (E. G. Getting angry) And that is a good thing to do so. Not suggesting avoiding triggering.

[–] Dkarma@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

Pakistani kingpin

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

This article is about the plight of afghani women and you've instead shifted away from the victims to cry about NATO. Can we not discuss anything without running unprompted to the comments to cry about how the US didn't make this issue any better?

We don't need a comment on every article about how the us bad, we need comments related to the actual article. This is why so many people around the world talk about how americans act like they are the entire world. This article isn't even from an american outlet.

Like seriously... Can we not condemn the absolute horrid treatment of women without making the conversation about the west?? Why is that so hard? These things are related deeply to culture, history, religion and that should be allowed to be discussed.

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

This article is about manufacturing consent for the next foreign war.

For the last decade of occupation, at least, the Taliban controlled all the tribal regions, which is the majority of the nation. Do you think these crimes against humanity were not occurring then?

So how come now, after the withdrawal and end of the occupation, are news organizations suddenly devoting so much masthead to covering them?

People tend to believe that propaganda means lies, but the most effective propaganda is the truth. It's putting out information that is designed to elicit a specific emotional response or reaction. That is what this torrent of post withdrawal Afghanistan articles are about.

How much coverage has been devoted to women's rights versus the American post withdrawal policy freezing Afghanistan bank accounts to repay victims of 9/11? A policy that was directly linked to famines and food insecurity across the country.

That is serious question and my point isn't some reductive America is bad argument. It's that only one of those stories advances a pro-western military intervention narrative.

I will repeat what I already said, the story of that women is horrific and the Taliban is full of evil sadistic pieces of shit. But that is exactly why those narratives have been selected, because they help condition Western readers to be ready for the next foreign war.

If you don't believe me, look through all of the replies here that are using the emotional resonance of that woman as justification for military occupation.

[–] xc2215x@lemmy.world 22 points 3 days ago

Very disgusting but not shocking knowing the Taliban.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 21 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Basically, the entire 20 year war resulted in everything going back to how they were at the start.

[–] RippleEffect@lemm.ee 8 points 3 days ago (2 children)

In a lot of ways it's disappointing.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago

I would say in every way. It was basically pointless. We even proved it only took a small force to get Bin Laden. And not in Afghanistan.

If the war had to happen, it should have ended once the coalition knew Bin Laden had left the country.

[–] aniki@lemmings.world 12 points 3 days ago

Not if you're a defense contractor. Now they have more money than the government and tell it what to do. Isn't capitalism great?!

[–] shasta@lemm.ee 5 points 2 days ago

Why would she do this to them!?

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 14 points 3 days ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

In the video recording viewed by the Guardian and Rukhshana Media, the young woman is filmed being told to take off her clothes and is then raped multiple times by two men.

Last week the Guardian published accounts of teenage girls and young women who said that they were sexually assaulted and beaten after being detained under Afghanistan’s draconian hijab laws.

In one case, a woman’s body was allegedly found in a canal a few weeks after she had been taken into custody by Taliban militants, with a source close to her family saying she had been sexually abused before her death.

Since they took power in August 2021, the Taliban have imposed what human rights groups are calling a “gender apartheid” on Afghanistan’s 14 million women and girls, excluding them from almost every aspect of public life.

The Guardian and Rukhshana Media spoke with multiple other female protestors and activists who have also come forward to allege that they have been tortured and beaten after being arrested for calling for women’s rights.

“They gave electric shocks and hit parts of my body with cables so that I would not be able to show in front of the camera tomorrow,” she said, adding that she had been tortured into admitting to taking money from foreigners to protest against the Taliban.

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