Man, if he'd form a populist left party and stop caucusing with the Dems, he might get a lot of enthusiastic support and candidates running locally soon
this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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Yes please. Channeling my energy towards this future.
We could also do this ourselves, if we could find a way to organize it.
I’m sure with enough attention he’d acknowledge, and maybe support it.
It may sound silly but what’s the alternative?
I really think ranked choice voting is the answer here. It will open up the opportunity for third parties to actually gain traction.
Definitely need to change our voting system. I really like Veritasium's recentish video on voting systems. Sounds like approval voting is even better than ranked choice. Anything but first-past-the-post, please!
Me too but how are we going to get that changed before the next election?
Before ranked choice voting we need at least one party to rally around with a candidate that focuses on popular issues. Once we have someone in office that will commit to those issues we can then talk about these kinds of changes.
A good place to start would be at the state level since states run their own elections. For that all I can suggest is to get more actively involved in local politics than you ever have before.
Of course, that’s assuming we have another election.
Never underestimate the obstruction from establishment Democrats at every level of government. We passed a bill authorizing statewide use of ranked preference voting in CA and our neoliberal democrat governor Gavin Newsom vetoed it. I generally support his policies but this one was a flat out "fuck you" to everyone alienated by the neoliberal business as usual party that runs our state.
The answer to obstruction at every level of government is to push back at every level of government then.
That means getting involved in local government. You. Me. Us. All of us. Starting now.
That's a good question. I think we need a massive push towards it, from our local officials all the way to the top. Bernie may get onboard.
True but nothings going to happen until we both demand it and actually do something about it.
The time to be hopeful that one of the major parties has an awakening is over.
Absolutely. I think that the best path of action is to let our local politicians know clearly that this is the desire of their constituents, and push hard to vote in candidates that support this. All of these politicians started somewhere, so the best hope for change starts locally and grows from there as word gets out.
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We must only support candidates whose main policy position is electoral reform.
A third party, eh? Nah, he needs to take over the Democratic Party once and for all.
He had momentum, the DNC, also run by our oligarchs denied him of the opportunity.
Not for long
Bernie kicks ass like a kung fu fighter
Dems lost this election Bernie is still kicking and just won his seat back easy peasy
Dude is an old motherfucker but kind of in the same way Samuel L Jackson is a bad motherfucker
No let it die.
No there needs to be a place for "moderates" and embarrassed former-republicans to gather. The actual left can mobilize around Sanders and the current Republican party can die.
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He's partially right.
Unfortunately, I think the bigger issue is that a majority of Americans are fascists or indifferent to fascism.
“But are there not many fascists in your country?"
"There are many who do not know they are fascists but will find it out when the times comes.”
majority of Americans are fascists or indifferent to fascism.
I'm not convinced of that at all. Here's what I see:
A large portion of ignorant uneducated and easily manipulatable people who don't even know what fascism is.
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Large groups of religious people who focus on voting red because Christianity, their churches, pastors, and religious groups, and the abortion issue.
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Actual bigots. There's a lot of them and they like the racism, anti gay, nationalism, deportation stuff. Want women subjugated.
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Bullies, tough guys, "alpha male", and the "get money" crowd. There's a lot here too, and many in poor young black and Hispanic groups in addition to a lot of white males. Not necessarily bigots, but generally want women subjugated whether they know it or not (sex objects).
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The large group of just vote red without thinking because it's what family and friend circles do and always have.
The above I think don't understand fascism at all. Not educated or informed enough.
Edit: I would say to be "indifferent to fascism" you have to actually understand what it is, and I don't think much of the maga crowd does. My opinion/speculation.
Yeah I also don't agree. You honestly have to discard a lot of public information to force yourself into this level of ignorance. For nine years he's told us he's a proud piece of shit. If they didn't listen for that long that's on them.
Is it really so hard to believe that’s exactly how millions upon millions of people go about living their lives?
Yes, that does seem completely insane to people like you and me who don’t tolerate that level of willful ignorance in ourselves, but to someone else that’s all just noise that they tune out.
Ever heard the phrase, “Hell is other people“? I’m slowly starting to believe this existence is a punishment.
Completely disagree, a person doesn't have to understand what fascism is to be a fascist or indifferent to fascism, any more than they need to be an expert on dogs to not kick or oppose kicking one.
Actually I changed my mind and disagree with my other comment LOL.
I still find it hard to call an extremely ignorant uneducated person a fascist, who is being manipulated by an actual fascist leader. They're just potentially being manipulated. The dumber they are, the easier to manipulate.
Some or even many of these people conceivably would change their stances and choices if provided with lots of education. Some.
Ignorance ultimately doesn't excuse or justify their actions. Your beliefs aren't as important as your actions. Not to say that they should be dragged behind the shed and shot, but that actions have consequences and they need to be held accountable for theirs. If somebody votes for a fascist leader and supports a fascist political party, they're at least collaborators in fascism.
You have to treat these people like they're in a cult, because that's what's happening here. Trump's rhetoric this past year has been eerily similar to Jim Jones near the time that they all drank the Flavor-Aid (almost identical, even). And when dealing with cultists, it's important to remember that not all of them can be saved. After a certain point, even if they recognize that they're in the wrong, most cultists will double down rather than admit that they were wrong - because they're in too deep and to admit that they were fooled would be to admit that their entire life has been wrong and that what they did wasn't justified.
Hope that you can make them realize why they're in the wrong, but be prepared to grab the knife that they might pull on you. Because that's probably the more likely scenario.
Kindly, I disagree again lol.
Indifferent:
Having no particular interest or concern; apathetic
I still argue you need to understand it to be indifferent about it specifically. However, I do believe these people are indifferent to having a desire to learn what fascism actually is and actual historical contexts.
But we can agree to disagree 😀
Edit: oops "to be a fascist" yes I'll agree with you on that one sorry. They can be fascists without actually knowing that they are and how to define it.
The abortion issue is part of fascism. It creates a lower unequal class out of women.
I'd say most of the maga base don't know this though. Complete ignorance. Just "libs kill babies" is their thought process.
I have a hard time thinking that someone who is dumb and manipulatable by a fascist, is actually a fascist themselves. They're just dumb and easy to manipulate.
The what party? America still has more than one political party?
Edit: I don't mean 'both parties are the same, you knuckleheads.' I mean there won't be a Democratic party by the next election. There won't be any parties but the Republican party.
That was already the case, remember when Harris was excited to get Republican endorsements and promised to put one on her cabinet?
It's sad people keep trying to use these against her
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It's all too much. The Democratic party wants to be a big tent party, the party of all. That's just not possible. Every group wants the party to prioritize their issues. Blacks and whites, straight people and gay people, men and women, young and old, religious people and atheists, owners and workers, cops and criminals, leftists, moderates, and conservatives, etc, etc, etc. We can't give everyone what they want.
I'm sorry, I really am, but we can't make everyone happy. Especially since a lot of these groups do not like each other. Look, it would be great if all these different groups could come together in one big rainbow coalition of peace, join hands and sing Kumbaya but it ain't gonna fucking happen. Stop trying to please and appease all these people and instead try to materially improve the lives of as many people as possible.
Stop trying to achieve perfect justice for every identity group and just focus on making housing more fucking affordable for as many people as possible, and healthcare, and a decent education, and so forth.
focus on making housing more fucking affordable for as many people as possible, and healthcare, and a decent education, and so forth.
Didn't Biden work on these issues, successfully or unsuccessfully, in the last 4 years?
Theres very little truth to this. Like most people that have broken the law arent identifying as criminals. Theyre not lobbying for more crime. Atheists arent trying to ban religion, etc. There are a lot of things that are just universally beneficial, like healthcare, environment, education. Its not a matter of opposing groups, its one group that wants to hurt people.
There are a lot of things that are just universally beneficial, like healthcare, environment, education.
Ok, so let's focus on that stuff, then. My point is, maybe we can't achieve perfect justice and fairness for everyone, so let's just try to like make rent more affordable and make it so people don't have to stress as much about paying their bills and maintaining a decent standard of living.
Oh that was up for vote, everyone here voted against it because it cant win.
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He’s right. It is time to take back the Democratic Party.
I like your spirit but the Democratic brand and party are entirely dead. Someone will have to start a new progressive party (which will be coopted by capitalism as soon as it shows promise)
Establishing a new political party is often a challenging and resource-intensive endeavor that may struggle to gain traction. Instead, a more effective approach may be to launch a political movement, advocacy organization, or even form a caucus within an existing major party, such as the Democratic Party.
Drawing from my experience as a former chair holder for the Ohio Green Party, I saw firsthand how difficult it is for smaller parties to sustain momentum and influence. The Green Party was consistently unorganized and unstable, making it challenging to build long-term support or advance impactful policy agendas. Many of these organizational challenges are common across emerging parties, which often lack the resources and structure to compete effectively in a two-party system.
In contrast, launching a movement or organization allows for focused advocacy, mobilization, and influence on public opinion or legislation without the structural and financial constraints of a party. Additionally, establishing a caucus within an established party, like the Democratic Party, enables you to align with its broader base while still advocating for distinct goals and principles, potentially gaining a platform and influence within the party’s framework.
These approaches often provide a clearer path to impact than attempting to overcome the structural obstacles of party formation, allowing for dedicated action and coalition-building within a stable framework, especially in the electoral college system. We have to be realistic here.
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Back? This is what its always been.