this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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This is not my personal opinion, I know Gen Z men who voted for Harris. But the voter demographics really speak for themselves, and maybe now people will look at the radicalization of young men as a serious (but solvable) issue.

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[–] sudoer777@lemmy.ml 4 points 33 minutes ago* (last edited 32 minutes ago)

I'm a Gen Z male, from what I can tell it seems like older generations tend to rely more on cable or traditional news outlets while younger generations tend to get their news from social media platforms like Instagram. Cable news tends to be more corporate and "normal"/consistent, while Instagram tends to feed news from a larger variety of sources that tend to be more anti-corporate and radical, but those sources also tend to optimize for very short bursts to get the point across quickly so the user can quickly move on to the next piece of news, and there's also quite a bit of low effort content and reposts and misinformation and that sort of stuff. So I think it's social media that's the main driving factor in causing Gen Z to be more radical - which in some ways is a good thing since they have more awareness of the events in Palestine (and radical leftism is based), but the platform can also put them into far-right fear-mongering bubbles and cause serious problems.

[–] kyub@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 52 minutes ago* (last edited 51 minutes ago)

The main source of this recent trending fascism, anti-scientific thinking and so on is social media or the web in general. To resist or refute the mass of false information and find out what's likely true and what's not, requires education, literacy, media competency, things like that. I guess current generations are lacking this so they fall easy prey to "funny" fascist memes, fakes and rhetoric, then vote for rightwing extremists, destabilizing their own country as a result, not realizing that this leads to big disadvantages for everyone including themselves. We failed to protect these younger generations from misinformation, and now they are turning the world into what they are misled to believe is true.

We used to have relatively high living standards in the Western democracies. This will soon all crumble and we (most people who aren't rich) will suffer from it, regardless of who you voted for. And on top of that, climate change will finish us all off, because battling that isn't even on the radar for those fascists because they don't even believe in it. So instead of doing too little, we'll do literally zero and even accelerate the problem, meaning it'll affect us all much sooner already and with higher intensity.

So enjoy your still existing relatively privileged life while it still lasts. It's ging to get much, MUCH worse before it's going to be better again. Buckle up and prepare yourselves.

[–] Murvel@lemm.ee 1 points 5 minutes ago

Lemmy right now is saltier than the earth of Carthage after the Roman's victory.

[–] LANIK2000@lemmy.world 10 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

As a zoomer that's old enough to be working class now. Man, my childhood was fucked. At school, being a right wing troll was the norm, at least for boys. I was too.

The worst part is no-one cared, fucking "they'll grow out of it" and now everyone is suddenly in shock. When I talk about it to my friend today he's even in fucking denial about it, "Oh they didn't actually mean that, it was all jokes".

And our education system doesn't do anything to combat this shit either. Quite the opposite, the dogmatic authoritarian approach schools take coupled with zero-tolerance policies pretty much ensures people shouting this hateful shit get away with it.

After all saying "Hitler did nothing wrong" only gets annoyed looks, gets completely brushed off as "edgy" or something. But then when someone points out that person's shit, suddenly that's an attack???

[–] sudoer777@lemmy.ml 2 points 21 minutes ago

I graduated from a Christian high school a few years ago, and now they have a Discord server that's basically their own version of 4chan and they post a bunch of edgy racist/queerphobic/etc stuff. Then the person running it went to MIT. It still exists and I'm pretty sure the staff knows about it and doesn't give a shit. Of course the school itself promotes racist and queerphobic political ideologies as well so that's not exactly helpful either.

[–] Matombo 2 points 33 minutes ago

I guess the lonelyness epedemic plays a part in it which hits younger people harder then older ones and mans stronger then woman.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 10 points 1 hour ago

PragerU was started to indoctrinate Gen Z when the realized the Millenials were Far Left and the Boomers were dying out

Mission Accomplished...

[–] w3dd1e@lemm.ee 85 points 6 hours ago (3 children)

It seems counter intuitive but I don’t think Gen Z is as good with technology as most people assume they are.

I think they just believe everything they see on YouTube and TikTok. Those algorithms just feed people what they want to see and don’t challenge anyone.

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 1 points 59 minutes ago

Sure are some glass-tappin motherfuckers

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 45 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Who thinks they're good with technology? They've never had technology that requires any more knowledge than how to swipe. They're shit with technology.

[–] dumbass@leminal.space 6 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Who thinks they're good with technology?

Millennials, it's the only thing we're good at, we suck at everything else...

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 7 points 4 hours ago

I meant who thinks zoomers are good with technology.

[–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

We killed napkins motherfucker

Also stigma about depression, no stigma when you're the majority.

[–] minibyte@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

We killed napkins

Do you use your sleeve? I don’t understand.

[–] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 2 points 1 hour ago

Maybe napkins is some kind of influencer or something

[–] w3dd1e@lemm.ee 4 points 4 hours ago (5 children)

I mean that many people just assume younger generations are better with technology.

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[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 40 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Yep. Older people (Millennial, Gen X) grew up with PCs that could be heavily modified, run any program, even repurposed to run Linux if you were brave. Later generations who grew up with phones only get to use the apps that Apple / Google approve of. There's no hacking the system, so you get whatever the algorithm says you get.

Older people grew up on BBSes and later "Bulletin Boards", which were mostly the same thing just with prettier graphics, also with email, and sometimes instant messengers. Communities were smaller, and there was no mediator. Younger ones are stuck in apps that are designed around engagement, with a "celebrity" vs "fan" content model where it's all geared around followers and likes. It's all parasocial relationships from the "fan" side, and trying to keep up with whatever the algorithm wants from the creator side.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 11 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

It really fucking sucks that platforms that used to be designed to allow 2-way communication between equals have flopped so hard trying to follow the exact model you just outlined. For all its faults, Facebook used to be a really great place to keep in contact with long distance friends and family. Now it won't even show you anything anyone in your friends list posts, and the options for interacting are completely neutered on their mobile site. It went from being a site I enjoyed, to a site I despise. And there aren't any alternatives. The era of a platform for friends and family is over.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

The only reason Facebook was at all successful is that they made it easy to migrate over from MySpace.

Before Facebook people weren't locked into their social networks. In the early days of BBSes you were mostly on your local BBS, but you could sometimes communicate with another BBS if your BBS was part of FidoNet. When instant messengers like ICQ, AIM, MSN Messenger, etc. became popular, it was common to use a unified program that logged into all of them at once. But, already there was corporate consolidation. BBSes were often run by people out of their own homes, or at least by hobbyists. The early messengers were all commercial products.

Then there were the early social media websites: SixDegrees.com, Classmates.com, Friendster, (LinkedIn), MySpace, Orkut, and in 2004 Facebook. At first Facebook was closed to anybody who wasn't a US university student. You even had to have an email address from a US university to register. But, when they wanted to grow, they made it easy to migrate from other sites, especially MySpace. They released a tool that allowed you to basically stay in touch with your MySpace friends from Facebook, but not the other way around. That slowly drained people away from MySpace until it eventually collapsed. These days, thanks to section 1201 of the DMCA, if you tried to release a tool that allowed people to migrate away from Facebook, you'd be nuked from orbit.

Now, every social media site is a walled garden protected by a moat and an electric fence. Every one is owned by companies worth more than $1b. People can't leave because the FOMO is too strong, but they don't want to stay because the sites are pure shit. You see that especially with Twitter. It is absolute shit since Musk took over, but many people feel like they can't leave. And, when people do leave, do they go to Mastodon, which isn't owned by a corporation? Nope, they mostly go to Threads, owned by Meta, or Bluesky, owned by a lot of the same people behind Twitter.

Unless the governments of the world step in and either break up the tech giants, or require that they are interoperable, I don't know how we back out of this shitty situation.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

I lived through those early days, and although they were glorious, those boards, and forums, and ICQ chats weren't filled with friends and family.

MySpace was the first place where everyone was. It was the first time in history where you could go find out what happened to all of your old friends and rekindle a relationship if you wanted to.

I remember going through basic training when the Drill Sergeants told us we'd make the best friends of our lives, that we'd never see again. And that held true for 10 years after I got out. Then suddenly MySpace became hugely popular and I found them all again! Because of Facebook I'm still friends with several of them today.

Facebook got really lucky with the timing of their public launch. They still kind of just sat around being empty until MySpace started massively changing the platform under new ownership from NewsCorp. I think that acquisition was the worst in history up until Twitter.

Anyways, in their infinite corporate wisdom, they wiped everyone's profiles. Like seriously, WTF? They deleted everyone's pictures, all of their blog posts, comments, and just about everything. Talk about not understanding what they bought. They did release a tool to get your pictures back, but why the heck would anyone trust the site after that. People were already checking out Facebook, so they all just jumped over there. Plus the clean design, with lots of white space (which is completely gone now), was very Web 2.0 and people liked it.

Anyways, like I originally said, and like you confirmed, that era is over. We both know the government is never going to split them up, and even an exact clone of a service today would fail. Social sites need people to succeed, and people don't have any interest in creating a new community when there's all of these ready-made communities that they already understand, regardless of how bad they have become.

The only reason TikTok succeeded is because it had backing from CCP and basically infinite money to market and attract new people. No start-up would ever have those types of funds these days. If somehow through a miracle a start-up did acquire enough funding to be a threat to meta or Xitter, then the billionaires at the heads would make an irresistible offer, buy it, and kill it. It's over. The free Internet is dead.

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[–] AidsKitty@lemmy.world -2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Maybe because one political party despises them and wishes for "the bear"?

[–] IzzyJ@lemmy.world 3 points 40 minutes ago

Stop being worse than a bear then

[–] JordanfireStar@lemmy.world 52 points 7 hours ago (7 children)

White women as a majority still voted for Trump. Why just blame men?

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[–] KoalaUnknown@lemmy.world 45 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Social media. Gen Z grew up with youtubers and influencers pushing their beliefs.

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[–] pizza_the_hutt@sh.itjust.works 125 points 9 hours ago (11 children)

There is a lot to be said here. I'll use my own experience as an example.

I'm a millennial male who had a terrible time as a young adult through my mid 30s. I grew up in a fairly religious/conservative area of the US, and I didn't have the ability to even start questioning that before my college years because literally everyone I knew was either a vocal supporter of or tacitly accepted that cultural status quo. Mental health issues were either not discussed or not recognized in any serious fashion. It wasn't until my late 20s that I finally understood that I had severe depression and anxiety and sought help, despite suffering from it since my early teenage years.

Socially, I never felt like I was cool enough or good enough. I didn't understand women, and the endless series of rejections and confusing encounters only served to erode my low self confidence further. I had no idea what a healthy relationship looked like because my parents were just going through the motions at that point, and the relationships I saw in TV shows and movies were incredibly shallow. The few people I considered friends did not support me in any positive way. I eventually kicked them to the curb, preferring solitude to being the butt of their jokes.

I was a prime target for recruitment for the alt-right: depressed, alone, disaffected, and ready to lash out. The only thing that kept me from going in that direction was a keen sense that the rhetoric was bullshit and its leaders only cared to take advantage of the rank-and-file to accumulate money and power. Many people I knew were not so perceptive and became victims of that movement.

My only saving grace was that I had a decent job with healthcare benefits, which allowed me to get the therapy I needed to overcome these challenges. Again, most people I knew did not have such resources. Nearly a decade later, I am now a family man with a wife and child. I am far happier than I have been at any other point in my life. Despite that, there is still plenty I don't understand. I don't have a good grasp of what positive masculinity looks like. I cannot point to anyone who has served as a good, male role-model in my life. I still don't have any close male friends with whom I can share my feelings and challenges.

However, I do understand how easily young men can be swayed to far-right crusades. Social media warped my view of reality, and it's far worse now than it was 10-15 years ago. Moreover, there is no alternative to far-right echo chambers for young men to commiserate and get help. Those spaces simply do not exist on the left. If you dare to complain or vent, you will immediately be told your problems don't matter and called a misogynist. I can readily call multiple conversations I had with liberals and feminists who rejected my problems, even being told that I was "living life on easy mode" because I was a man.

For all the women who are reading this, I get it. As a man, I don't have to worry about the government meddling in my bodily autonomy. For the most part, I don't have to worry about walking alone at night or being accosted or raped. I don't have to worry about being taking seriously at my job or being passed over for promotions because of my gender. However, none of that negates the challenges that young men are facing. Their gender does not save them from broken homes, abuse, mental health issues, a bad job market, degrading standards of living, student debt, double-standards, confusing and contradictory narratives surrounding dating and relationships, etc. Yes, privileged men with no right to complain do exist, but they are an extreme minority. The vast majority of young men are in a bad place, and the only people reaching out to help have ulterior motives. If you want things to change, try having some empathy. Maybe you will get empathy for your problems in return.

[–] IzzyJ@lemmy.world 1 points 35 minutes ago

So much fucking this

[–] bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works 40 points 7 hours ago (5 children)

This. Men are more often victims of violent crime, homelessness, mental illness, suicides, do worse in school, incarceration, die in wars, work dangerous jobs. Classic male institutions, structures, and spaces don’t exist anymore like they used to.

Add to that that men showing emotions is still seen as weakness.

These issues aren’t addressed or even mentioned.

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[–] bdjegifjdvw@lemmy.world 29 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

As a Gen Z man who statistically should have fallen down the incel and alt-right pipeline but didn't, this echos exactly what I see in my generation. We don't have positive examples of Masculinity, and the left just yells at us that we're trash, when we struggle with things and most don't have many (or any) good friends to lean on. So of course they go to the alt right.

[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

There is only really Noel Deyzel from social media as a positive role model

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