this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
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[–] VerilyFemme@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I could be wrong but is it not just because Susan stopped believing in Narnia? Lucy still shows up for The Last Battle.

EDIT: So do Jill and Polly! This seems a little reductive of Susan's role in the story as an example of lack of faith and how maturing brings you to focus on your surroundings and lose your inner child.

[–] jpreston2005@lemmy.world 131 points 1 week ago (2 children)

lol, I love it.

C.S. Lewis - "I'm going to make the single most catholic fairy tale ever. This thing will be such catholic, woah, watch out, catholic comin' out of your ears with this fairy tale."

The Gays: Smiling, rubbing hands together, menacingly

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Lewis was an Anglican. Otherwise, yes.

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[–] BossDj@lemm.ee 40 points 1 week ago (3 children)

What the hell is going on with these reply dates

[–] MrQuallzin@lemmy.world 45 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It's the beauty of Tumblr. Old posts resurface, get new comments, gets passed around, fades into obscurity. Rinse and repeat

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[–] 0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 1 week ago

Time moves differently in Narnia

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago

They were literally in the closet

[–] Montagge@lemmy.zip 35 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is "The Problem of Susan" some incel Narnia fanfiction?

[–] SolOrion@sh.itjust.works 88 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Technically, it's a short story by Neil Gaiman. Practically, it's definitely Narnia fanfiction except just legally distinct enough Neil Gaiman didn't get sued for it.

It's basically shorthand for, "it's kinda fucked up that they left Susan Pevensie out of Narnia towards the end just because she liked lipstick and dudes now."

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 26 points 1 week ago (11 children)

Especially when Peter was more than happy to sell her off for political gain in A Horse and His Boy, until he found out the slavers weren't Christian slavers.

[–] Midnight1938@reddthat.com 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

only christian slavers for my sister 😤😤

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[–] Montagge@lemmy.zip 19 points 1 week ago

Gotcha! It's been a long time since I've read the Narnia books so I wasn't sure if the "lipstick and boys" was from the books or this short story.

[–] phx@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

IIRC, it wasn't that "she liked lipstick and dudes" but essentially that her thoughts of Narnia became "oh, that funny game we played as kids".

It's not her gender or orientation, it's that she lost her belief in an effort to become more "adult". The lipstick and boys bit is more to emphasize this.

Narnia is apparently like Neverland in this regard. You stop believing and the magic is gone.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

The faith of children is also a recurring theme in the Bible.

Matthew 18: 2-4, for instance

^2 He called a child, whom he put among them, ^3 and said, ‘Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. ^4 Whoever becomes humble like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

1 Corinthians: 13 (one of the most-quoted chapters in the Bible, and a beautiful description of love even if you don't have faith) also compares the difference between childishness and adulthood to the difference between the partial understanding of the universe we have now to true understanding.

13 If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast,[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known.

And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

In order to see the magic of Narnia, childishness is required, because to see it as an adult is to see beyond the fantastical. In understanding, the ability to see the magic is lost.

[–] Jayjader@jlai.lu 2 points 6 days ago

Wow, I didn't realize that C.S. Lewis was riffing off of 1 Corinthians: 13 when he wrote (emphasis mine)

When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 33 points 1 week ago (5 children)

If you enjoy dystopian CS Lewis fanfic, check out the book/TV series "The Magicians".

Bonus: it is very gay

[–] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You had me at gay....which was, admittedly, the end of your comment.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

It’s so gay, and the show is gayer. They got to the point where the later seasons each have a musical episode

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[–] T156@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

In fairness, he did state that one of the reasons that he never wrote Susan was that he believed that he couldn't do her justice, and invited readers to come up with their own theories/stories.

[–] Kayday@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Cis Lewis isn't welcome in his own fantasy smh my head

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[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 week ago

okay, this is definitely how I'm going to think of Narnia from now on.

[–] Podunk@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Theres no problem with susan. C.S. Lewis was using narnia as a very christian metaphor, for... come to think of it, lots of things. Included in that metaphor was a Peter Pan esque commentary of childhood. Susan grew up too fast. Thats it. Flawed as it may be, thats the bit. Misogynistic as is seems on reflection, i dont think it was intended that way.

Boys never grow up. If you have full grown man in your life, you already know this.

If you dont, you are missing out. Want to have a child without actually having a child? Make guy friends. Everything will make sense after that.

[–] blazeknave@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

You had me in the first half but boys will be boys is a dangerous slippery slope, not an excuse

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 49 points 1 week ago

I'm sure glad we don't reduce genders to stereotypes around here because that would be very silly.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (13 children)

Included in that metaphor was a Peter Pan esque commentary of childhood. Susan grew up too fast.

One of the reasons The Last Battle soured me on the series was the way in which they applied these increasingly unpleasant purity tests to the accumulated cast of characters.

Boys never grow up. If you have full grown man in your life, you already know this.

One of the messages of "The Problem with Susan" was that pain is the source of maturity. You tend to see this in older people because they've experienced more of it.

Grown men who don't act particularly mature are ones who have led relatively charmed existences. But there are plenty who have a sobriety and seriousness about them. You'll inevitably find some kind of trauma behind each of these folks.

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