I use Arch btw
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Yes, I made it using a laptop's trackpad, how could you tell?
[Image description: Panel 1: Young man confidently walking, his vest bears the Wayland logo. Behind him is a grunt with the Gnome logo on his face holding a katana. The young man says: "It's high time you retire, old man!" Panel 2: An old man with a long beard and the Xorg logo on his chest is sitting on a throne and petting a rat, the XFCE mascot. He says: "It's still a hundred years too early for you to defeat me!" ]
It's the systemd drama all over again
No.
System D was/Is a philosophical debate.
Wayland vs X is a mortal attempting to summit Mt. Everest naked. Everyone is cheering Wayland on, no one believes it'll succeed.
Even the X people are like "Honestly it'd be a relief if you pulled this off, we're so tired, please end us"
No one thinks it'll succeed? Obviously you and I exist in very different parts of the linux sphere, cause I'm pretty sure X11 is all but dead as a project and its kinda just a question of how long it takes for Wayland to be feature complete enough to reach a critical mass of adoption. And its kinda feeling like we're currently on the cusp of being there with the major DEs moving towards discontinuing X11 support 😅
This software has been in development for a long time and still doesn't work for my niche usecase and this therefore UNUSABLE and DOOMED TO FAIL
That's a weird take. You have a software that you use and suits your needs. It's showing its age, but still tricks along. Then there's this other software that's gaining spotlight, but it does not suit all your needs. You point out the regression. Some rando makes fun of your valid point.
I agree with what you're saying, but you're shifting the goalpost.
Everyone is cheering Wayland on, no one believes it’ll succeed
That parent comment (and other comments like it in these threads) are what I take issue with. You can make the exact same argument why people should stick with Windows and not bother with Linux.
X is 36 years old. Wayland is 15. Wayland was not the first attempt at unseating that throne and for the sake of all our sanity, I hope it's the last. I don't want Wayland to win because it's better, I want Wayland to win because I'm tired of trying to use it and having to go back to X because it broke something.
Sounds like a skill issue to me
Everyone is cheering Wayland on, no one believes it'll succeed.
Uhhmm. I think by now most see it inevitable with distros and DEs switching on increasing pace
What the fuck is “System D”?
Let me google that for you
google?
Let me quack that for you then
Is that the word for using Duckduckgo? I figured it'd be "duckduckgoing", like "I just duckduckwent systemd". Anyway, I use searx, so I'd obviously say "I searxed".
Quacking is just way better haha
I think that was an attempt to call me out for giving zero fucks about Android spellcheck dicking with my comment.
No for not searching it up yourself lol
Isn't the mascot a mouse instead of a rat?
Today, X is like the horse and buggy proponents, claiming the car isn't feasible cause you can't get gasoline in every town.
Very true. Like I would love it if something worked as solidly as X but Wayland has had like 15 years to get it's shit together and it's still not there. There are plenty of people for who it does work too but 2 out of the 3 computers I use regularly have issues with Wayland.
I have to always be 1/3 lol
Wayland gets so many more of the basics so much better than X11 it's not even funny anymore. X11 is stuttery, unsecure, unmaintaned, can't really be updated for new features that are pretty important in 2024 (VRR, HDR). For now with my usage, the only big disadvantage I saw from Wayland is that you can't restart it like X11 when something goes wrong, but that's the thing, I haven't had to restart it like I had to often with X11. Even on Nvidia Wayland is better now, except maybe for gaming but that's Nvidia for you.
You absolutely can restart Wayland. The command to do so is just specific to whichever DE or WM you're using as they have their own Wayland Compositor implementation.
DEs should implement good commands for that
startplasma-wayland)qdbus org.kde.ksmserver /KSMServer logout 0 3 3)kwin_wayland --replace)Some of those are completely undiscoverable
Yeah, I agree. I just ended up aliasing them.
Haha me too, didnt know the third one
X11 is stuttery
Not for me
unsecure
Source?
unmaintaned
Received a number of commits just last week: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg
can't really be updated for new features that are pretty important in 2024 (VRR, HDR).
VRR is supported, at least on AMD: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Variable_refresh_rate
For HDR you have a point, afaik.
Wayland gets so many more of the basics so much better than X11 it's not even funny anymore.
And yet X11 works rock solid for me, while Wayland still crashes whenever I so much as look at it wrong. The amount of time and work I've lost because of Wayland crapping out on me isn't even funny anymore. On AMD by the way, so no blaming Nvidia's crappy Linux support.
Wayland will probably be the better product one day, but this day is not that day, at least not for every use-case. Great that it works fantastically for you, I genuinely advise you to keep using it, but keep in mind that 'mileage may vary' from person to person. Personally for now I'll stick to X11, as I need to get work done and unfortunately don't have time to muck around with Wayland's antics.
X11 is insecure. Any program can read any keystroke, any windows contents, can input anything anywhere etc.
The concept of separate apps basically doesnt exist.
Those security features are misleading.
A second app can already read all of your files, modify the first app, modify $PATH to replace your display server and do anything it wants as your user. Running wayland instead of Xorg provides no tangible benefits in security.
Yes and wayland is a puzzle piece of fixing that.
The other one is containerized apps that use a trusted system portal to get opt-in filesystem access to actually needed directories.
Nice reference as Xfce still not implemented Wayland support as far as I know.
They are working on it, while keeping the xorg session alive