Speaking as a straight cis male who's on the verge of asexuality, it's been incredibly difficult and oftentimes alienating having discussions of sexuality and sexual insecurities with my other cis male friends because a lot of the discussion tends to veer into vulgarity or jesting. Then there's the conversations you have with your partners and sometimes some of those partners implying that you're not 'man enough', etc.

I understand that a lot of this is due to toxic masculinity but I've gotta say, it's been pretty tough.

[–] Knusper@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, I hate how girls will be disgusted when it's somehow suggested you'd want to have sex with them, while at the same time, I don't feel like I'm even supposed to have an opinion.

It's like, I'm a man, not in a relationship, not gay and not good at pretending I've never heard of sexuality, so if I don't want to have sex with a girl, that must mean I find her extremely ugly.

[–] Theharpyeagle@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, it may depend on the context, but I think it's pretty reasonable to feel uncomfortable if it's apparent that someone is thinking about having sex with you while you're just trying to have a conversation.

[–] Knusper@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not at all trying to say that I don't think that's reasonable. I'm complaining that I don't feel like I have an influence on the matter.

Sometimes, you accidentally say something with a double meaning that can be interpreted sexually and it's the girl who points that out and then assumes you're thinking perverted things, because she's been told anyone with a penis does that all the time.

I am annoyed by that, because I'm a big fan of girls and don't want to convey that they're just meat to entertain my sexuality. If you're reading me as a tone-deaf pervert, that will not make sense.

[–] Theharpyeagle@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

From the other side, for a lot of women don't just hear that people do that (though there are many firsthand accounts), they experience it. Even if you don't mean anything by it, they've likely been the victim of enough purposefully suggestive comments that they're sensitive to it. It's not really your fault, but it's not theirs, either.

Out of curiosity, do you have some examples of misconstrued phrases?

[–] Knusper@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

Oh yeah, for sure. I hate all the slimy idiots that can't speak with a woman without perverted comments and everyone who defends them.

I did have a specific example in mind when I wrote the above, but it happened in German, so the double meaning won't make quite as much sense:
I was working with a lady colleague on wrapping articles and whenever we had completed one, we placed it into a larger carton for shipping. Each of us had our own larger carton that we filled.

Well, and one time, I went to put my article away, but got shortly confused and then exclaimed "Oh, now I just wanted to shove it into yours.".

And then, yeah, she asked, if I'm aware what I just said, and I replied that I am, but I only noticed after I had said it. Enqueue awkward silence.

So, there was no actual problem. She was no fan of me having said that, but she understood that this happens and knew me already well enough that I was honest about it.

I just thought about it afterwards and realized that I didn't even actually desire traditional, penetrative sex with her.

I do think sexuality in general is cool, as in two consenting adults making each other feel good. And she is gorgeous. She often talked about how she visited the gym and worked on her body and one time admitted that she felt self-conscious about it.
So, there was a certain curiosity what her body looks like and I would have loved to tell her that she's a fucking dumbass for being self-conscious about it. And yeah, sure, some amount of instinctive sexual desire will be involved. I can't shut that part of my brain off completely.

But all of that is ignoring that I'm a fucking dumbass, too. I'm also self-conscious about my body. And I don't train, I actually have a reason to be self-conscious. As incumbent of the male gender role, I'm not supposed to, but that doesn't sit well with me.
I would need a lot of trust to believe that a girl actually wants to have sex with me, both because I don't find my body desirable and because I care about consent beyond yes or no. A girl enduring sex with me, just because she likes me in other ways, that sounds like the worst kind of hell for me.

But yeah, none of that mattered in that situation.

[–] Zamotic@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Whatever... stop talking to me. You clearly just want to get into my pants. What?!? You DON'T want to sleep with me? Why the eff not?! Am I not good enough for you? Not pretty enough?!"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[–] NightAuthor@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I married my highschool girlfriend, so I’m definitely not in the know about the dating scene… but this sounds very incel-y to me.

If you’re objectively getting this kind of response, it may be that you’re pursuing the wrong type of person, or you should work on your approach. Every person is an individual, you gotta treat each person as an individual.

[–] Knusper@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure, that was a hyperbole, not an actual, verbatim response. Most girls won't actually say these things, because that would say a lot more (that they're conceited). But you can often tell that they're overthinking it from their reaction, which is of course difficult to portray with words.

But yeah, it should be clarified that girls are not to blame for this. Society as a whole, both men and women, are involved in passing this non-sense continually onwards.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not if you are old enough. The only nice part about being in my early 40s is that when I tell someone that, "yes, I'm that picky/shallow," they seem to just accept it and move on. I'm old enough that when I tell someone "this is the bare minimum that I expect," they accept that and move on.

The only strange part for me at this point is that the bare minimum I expect is that you a) are able to take care of your own needs, just as I do, b) are keeping up with your exercise routine, and will be willing to help both of us in pushing each other to better heights, and c) you aren't vapid, and can actually hold a conversation. I'm not interested in being your professor/father/educator exclusively. I want to challenge you, just as much as you challenge me.

Literally every potential partner I have met cannot fulfill these, IMHO, pretty basic requirements. The only real benefit of being this shallow/picky is that now people finally respect my choices.

[–] aksdb@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

a sounds reasonable. But b and c sound like big expectations where I would doubt that I could fulfill them all the time and then I would disappoint. So these two points sound to me like a lot of pressure.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They are a lot of pressure. They are the same pressure I put on myself, so yeah. Not many people push themselves the way I do, so not many people would even want to live my lifestyle. Especially as it isn't very rewarding in a material sense.

[–] aksdb@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

Ah then it is fine. No judgement. I just wanted to make sure you don't underestimate their implications and your wording sounded a bit like you consider them the normal baseline.

[–] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not a stereotype when scientific studies tend to confirm it.

Sex drive: Theoretical conceptualization and meta-analytic review of gender differences

The meta-analysis revealed a stronger sex drive in men compared to women, with a medium-to-large effect size, g = 0.69, 95% CI [0.58, 0.81]. Men more often think and fantasize about sex, more often experience sexual affect like desire, and more often engage in masturbation than women.

Is There a Gender Difference in Strength of Sex Drive? Theoretical Views, Conceptual Distinctions, and a Review of Relevant Evidence

Across many different studies and measures, men have been shown to have more frequent and more intense sexual desires than women, as reflected in spontaneous thoughts about sex, frequency and variety of sexual fantasies, desired frequency of intercourse, desired number of partners, masturbation, liking for various sexual practices, willingness to forego sex, initiating versus refusing sex, making sacrifices for sex, and other measures. No contrary findings (indicating stronger sexual motivation among women) were found. Hence we conclude that the male sex drive is stronger than the female sex drive.

[–] Knusper@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

It is still a stereotype that "boys only want sex". Those studies suggest a higher sexual drive on average, not that it applies for all boys, and certainly not that it's the only thing boys want.

[–] healer_56@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

thats not what stigma means

[–] Nobsi@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

Stigma male grindset