this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2024

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A Boring Dystopia

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submitted 3 weeks ago by Linkerbaan@lemmy.world to c/aboringdystopia@lemmy.world

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[–] NIB@lemmy.world 30 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

The issue is the border of Gaza and Egypt, the philadelphi corridor. Israel wants to control it or at least have some presence there.

Thats because a lot of Hamas(and non Hamas palestianians) fled to Egypt. And once Israel pulls out, Israel doesnt want Hamas or military supplies to flow back into Gaza.

The american proposal offered reduced israeli presence in the area, with the Palestinian Authority managing it and Israel "supervising".

Hamas rejected the proposal because they dont think Israel should be in Gaza in any capacity.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 29 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Some extra info: israel is already forbidden from having troops at the Rafah Crossing under the 1979 Egypt-israel peace treaty

Israel wanted to pretend to blame the Gaza concentration camp on Egypt. By taking the crossing they went mask off. They are blockading everything and cannot blame any other party. Every starving person in Gaza is now 100% the fault of israel.

But they don't care because both the Democrats and Republicans fully back their Genocide.

[–] AshMan85@lemmy.world 18 points 3 weeks ago

Arrest little hitler.

[+] Johanno -29 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

As long as the Hamas exists there will be no end to this war. Hamas is not going to compromise on any of their goals. One of those goals is to kill each jew.

So this war will end with the death of Hamas and their followers or once every jew is dead.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 22 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

As long as ~~the Hamas exists~~ Netanyahu is in power there will be no end to this war. ~~Hamas~~ Netanyahu's fascist apartheid regime is not going to compromise on any of their goals. One of those goals is to kill [or drive out of Palestine] ~~each jew~~ every Palestinian.

So this war will end with the ~~death~~ defeat and arrest of ~~Hamas and their followers~~ Netanyahu, Smotrich, Ben–Gvir, and the rest of the regime or once every ~~jew~~ Palestinian is dead [or driven out of Palestine]

Fixed it for you, genocide apologist.

[+] Johanno -10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

I didn't excuse any of the actions by any of war participants. I am just saying that the war probably won't end until one is successful with their genocide. I don't like how Israel is killing mostly innocent people and I don't support the actions of Hamas either.

Edit: As many misunderstood this I want to clarify, that I wanted to stay as objective as possible with that answer. Obviously the Palestinians are not committing genocide, they are being killed by thousands. However I think they would commit genocide if they could. That's just my opinion.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 10 points 3 weeks ago

You certainly seemed to be placing responsibility on just one of those participants.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Imagine "both-sidesing" a genocide. There's no "genocide" against zionism. Even if this weren't an unrealistic and wacky fantasy, zionism is a cult not an ethnic group. It's powered by the largest empire in history. There is literally no genocide of zionists. Not possible in theory or reality.

Did you feel equally bad for the nazis? Jews, roma, queers, and many other people would certainly have "genocided" the nazis during ww2, right? The war couldn't end without someone being "genocided", right? JFC.

And again nazism and zionism are both just cults, not ethnic groups. This is important because people can't change their ethnicity, but they can change their ideology from genocidal to humane. Many many people have already done this.

It's only the most brainwashed who are extremely committed to genocide. Disgustingly this is mostly children. That's why zios are constantly recruiting children from around the world to commit genocide. No different from nazi youth organizations.

[–] SmackemWittadic@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

That's why zios are constantly recruiting children from around the world to commit genocide. No different from nazi youth organizations.

They're also forcing the small number of Palestinian children who they left alive into a feeling of rage and intense hatred. A feeling that will only build up over their lives until all those kids want is to destroy Israel.

This gives Israel more self justification for their actions, which is the whole point of this.

[–] SmackemWittadic@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

Why the fuck would you even think that Hamas is committing Genocide?

Please, justify that claim to me

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

I didn't excuse any of the actions by any of war participants

Well for one thing, your insistence on calling it a war with two active participants is gross minimizing of the ACTUAL role of Israel, which is that of one of the biggest and most advanced militaries in the history of humanity systematically eradicating a civilian population and framing it as self defense.

probably won't end until one is successful with their genocide

More fundamentally dishonest framing making Hamas appear many times stronger than they are, thus making it seem like Israel is fighting for its survival when what it's doing is systematically eradicating a civilian population

I don't like how Israel is killing ~~mostly~~ almost exclusively innocent people

Fixed that for you and neither do I.

and I don't support the actions of Hamas either.

Me neither, but you're treating them as of they're in any way the equals of Israel, or even in control of the outcome of anything.

You can play innocent all you want, but whether it's on purpose or not, your framing makes untrue assumptions that skew the picture far away from anything even REMOTELY resembling reality.

[–] small44@lemmy.world 13 points 3 weeks ago

Even without hamas, israel will continue the occupation, steal their land, kidnapp, kill and rape palestinians

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

One of those goals is to kill each jew.

Can you cite a source for that or are you just repeating what Netanyahu said on state TV?

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

It's anti-semitic to conflate judaism with zionism. Fuck off with that nonsense.

There is nothing in judaism that requires colonialism, genocide, etc. Zionism is a modern cult created by overt colonizers grifting off judaism. It's offensive to equate this modern bullshit with an ancient religion.

[–] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 6 points 3 weeks ago

Because it's totally possible to eliminate Hamas, just like how we eliminated the Taliban and the Viet Cong. Guerilla groups like this are fueled by war, especially ones with this many atrocities against civilians. If the war isn't going to stop until Hamas is gone get ready to either genocide Palestine or get in a never ending quagmire, pretty easy to guess what netanyahu's government prefers.

[–] Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

That’s the type of argument that I used to buy into. I don’t anymore, because it has become abundantly clear that Israel’s attitude to Palestinians is exactly the same as Hamas’ attitude to Israel.

[–] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Look for yourself, that's not the case.

Hamas 1988 Charter and Revised 2017 Charter

The 1988 Charter, which is unreasonable for wanting Sharia Law and belief in the antisemitic conspiracy theory of the Elder Protocols of Zion, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. Hamas wants an end to Israel as an Apartheid State, not an extermination of all Israelis. Under Ahmed Yassin in the 1990's, truces were offered in exchange for Israeli to withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank to the 1967 borders. The 2017 Revised charter explicitly accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter.

There will be no end to the conflict until the end of the Occupation and Apartheid. Israel has repeatedly refused any permanent ceasefire. Instead they executed the principal negotiator on foreign soil. While they have perpetually delayed any genuine ceasefire, they have ruthlessly killed tens of thousands of children, hundreds of journalists, and even their own hostages. They have repeatedly displayed Palestinians in Gaza, bombed schools, Refugee camps, places of worship, historical sites. They have starved the entirely of Gaza more than even before Oct 7th, in which the majority of Gazans were food insecure due to the blockade.

This has been nearly an entire year of genocide. Make no mistake. Israel is the obstacle to a ceasefire, not Hamas.

History of peace process - The Intercept

“A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza

Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide – Continuously Updated

[–] beefbot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The wording is on purpose even for lazy readers like me : “Hamas rejects ”(…something, I’ve already clicked away.)

In my bad memory, now it’s Hamas who did some vaguely negative thing. We didn’t see “Israel fails (to offer something reasonable).” We probably won’t ever see that.

Start watching for this - you’ll see it too

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Most people only read headlines.

Americans read headlines. And not much else.

Overall, 41 percent of Americans report that they watched, read, or heard any in-depth news stories, beyond the headlines, in the last week.

Can't blame them too much when there's so much information but 'news' sites are intentionally abusing this.

[–] soumerd_retardataire@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

From the article cited : https://www.axios.com/2024/08/18/hamas-rejects-us-ceasefire-hostage-proposal

More specifically, Hamas objects to the fact that the proposal doesn't include a permanent ceasefire or comprehensive Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

Or from https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/19/middleeast/blinken-israel-herzog-ceasefire-talks-intl-hnk/index.html for example :

Netanyahu shot back, saying Israel will not be “giving in to Hamas’s demand” to end the war in Gaza as a condition of a deal.
“The Prime Minister has strongly insisted on this fundamental demand, which is vital to achieving the goals of the war, and Hamas changed its position,” a statement from his office said Sunday. “The Prime Minister will continue to work on advancing a deal that will maximize the number of living hostages and which will enable the achieving of all of the war objectives."

Meanwhile, i've read 3 newspapers articles this morning(, in french), and they were only talking about the Egypt-Gaza border as the reason for why the deal was refused.

Edit : I guess it's implied that a permanent ceasefire will follow in the "second phase", and a reconstruction in the third one. This comment was useless, sorry, it seems indeed that the problem came from the new israeli demands.
It won't end the many problems that Palestinians have to face, including the colonization, their many hostages, and everything else.
If Israel can't offer anything, and its allies won't offer anything else, then they can still offer to be an islamic sect with jewish characteristics, recognizing Muhammad's prophethood(, peace be upon him), and their neighbours as sisters/brothers, as one community. They wouldn't lose anything really but add traditions on top of their current ones, while staying different, muslims waited a long time to be accepted by the previous generation. It'd help, Israel would be an islamic land, more specifically of the old jewish sect who celebrates Muhammad as the last Prophet, but with other muslims as well.
If Israel took the heart of France, then we wouldn't care as long as they fused with the rest of France later on.

[–] febra@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

But Israel has a divine right to occupy and rape

[–] TheMightyCanuck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 weeks ago

Gods most moral rapists