Half the sentence of people who planned an environmental protest
this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2024
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Should be noted that the organiser of the protest who got 5 years
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was a repeat offender
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purposely blocked an ambulance, then when asked to let it through said he'd rather any patient inside die than let it through
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was arrested again during the court case for being in contempt of court
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said he couldn't wait to get out and commit more crime
He didnt really leave the judge much choice. You try telling a judge you want to commit more crime and see how that goes. Plus, purposely blocking an ambulance is a serious crime.
Plus, while not being illegal, he'll happily jump on a flight to the US just to attend a wedding, yet moans about poorer people going on holiday abroad. That rubs me the wrong way.
Thank you for providing this extra context. I don't think that people are really interrogating the circumstances properly when they compare sentences. Roger Hallam is a bona fide weirdo too - anyone who has not heard him being interviewed should listen to 5 mins of him describing his worldview.
Yeah, when you actually look at a lot of protest movements lemmy blindly supports they're deeply problematic in many ways, of course people want easy answers and glib heros so they'll get mad if you try and demonstrate nuance.
I don't think that's actually true. Honestly it seems like a very limited subset that actually support these actions. Context and nuance be damned.
These statements, while true are lacking so many critical details that it borders on disinformation.
- He was a repeat offender of nonviolent crimes.
- He was held in contempt after the court refused to allow him to speak to the motivation behind his crime, a key component in any defence of nonviolent civil disobedience.
- Of course he said he would commit the "crime" again. It's civil disobedience. What exactly are you expecting? The planet is still on fire and we're still burning it.
The ambulance thing is pretty terrible, but when you consider the objective outcome of our current world-burning, it's not an unexpected perspective. Given a few more years of inaction and profiteering, and the nonviolent actors will start giving up on being civil -- especially if the penalty is the same regardless. We'll be looking back on traffic blocking and orange paint with nostalgia.
- He was a repeat offender of nonviolent crimes.
And? Does that somehow mean it shouldn't factor into the decision? Should a serial fraudster be unpunished, because fraud is non-violent?
Besides, I'd say purposely blocking ambulances saying you're fine if the person inside dies is pretty violent.
- He was held in contempt after the court refused to allow him to speak to the motivation behind his crime, a key component in any defence of nonviolent civil disobedience.
He was held in contempt of court for making a scene more than once. When you're in court, you're not the one calling the shots.
- Of course he said he would commit the "crime" again. It's civil disobedience. What exactly are you expecting?
What are you expecting? The judge to say "look, I know as soon as you're free you're going to commit more crime, possibly even killing someone, as you've mentioned. But because climate change is a thing, I'm going to just let it happen. Btw I hope you enjoy your flight to America for that wedding!"
And no, don't put crime in quotes. It's not "crime", it's crime. "Crime" implies that it wasn't a real crime. It was. He is a criminal. It was proven, he was guilty, he is going to prison. Crime.
What you've said here changes nothing. He's still a repeat offender. He was still in contempt of court. He's still, by his own admission, a potential danger to the lives of others, he still intended to commit more crimes. And he's still a gargantuan hypocrite for wanting to kill someone for having the audacity of being passenger in a petrol-powered ambulance, while at the same time thinking it's fine to fly to America 6,000km+ away, to attend a bloody wedding.
I never contested the facts as stated, only that their presentation, devoid of context was misleading. I put "crime" in quotes to demonstrate the absurdity of a system that imprisons people for blocking traffic when those actually burning the planet are treated with the highest respect by our elected representatives. This wasn't defrauding old ladies, it was causing a traffic jam.
Normal car traffic blocks ambulances all the time, and yet no one seems to consider it a crime punishable by 5 years. Meanwhile, a woman kills a cyclist with her car and gets a suspended sentence. Canada is on fire. Greece is on fire. Bulgaria, Italy, North Macedonia, Turkey, Spain, and Portugal are all on fire. How many ambulances-worth of people do you think are going to die as a result?
And spare me the "he's a hypocrite 'cause he flew in a plane" pearl-clutching. He knows, as I'm sure you do that you don't fix climate change through individual action. Sure it feels nice to be all self-righteous and forego luxuries provided by bad energy policy, but real change comes through legislation that taxes the hell out of flying — you know, like JSO is demanding but for which our elected leaders would rather ignore because it'd be unpopular.
Being stuck in a traffic jam is very different to purposely causing one and purposely blocking an ambulance, with intent to kill. You are a psychopath if you think otherwise.
You don't think purposely blocking ambulances should be a crime? That's fucked up.
And spare me the "he's a hypocrite 'cause he flew in a plane" pearl-clutching.
No. Here he is being against people being in ambulances, while he feels it's fine for him to fly around the world, while at the same time saying that poor people (and only poor people!) shouldn't be allowed to fly.
Just more class warfare from upper class toffs who hate the poor. It's absolutely repulsive. Hope he has a good think about how much of a POS he is while he's in prison.
"Class warfare" from someone willing to literally go to prison to prevent millions of the poor dying in climate change. Right.
Yes. Class warfare. From someone who believes rich people should be able to fly around frivolously, but wants to stop poor people from being able to do it at all.
If it wasn't class warfare, it would be something like a yearly flight allowance for each individual. Not a "sorry poors, you can't fly, but the rich can. Maybe pull yourself up by the bootstraps?"
We aren't talking "yOu'rE a hYpOcRiTe bEcAuSe yOu'Re aGAinSt cLiMatE ChAnGe bUt hAvE a GaS sToVe" — we're talking someone who flies around frivolously (the most environmentally damaging thing you can do), including 6000km+ to attend a wedding, while at the same time saying it should be fine for him to do so, because he's wealthy. It's just the poor people that shouldn't be allowed.
I suppose the dirty working class scum just shouldn't have a holiday abroad every 5 years, they need to make sacrifices so that the wealthy can fly around in private jets or take a 6000km flight to a wedding.
It's disgusting. And even more repulsive are people who say they're left wing but celebrate open attacks like that on the working class.
You understand?
Also, do you still think purposely blocking an ambulance and saying you intend for any person inside to die is the same as being stuck in morning traffic in the car/bus on the way to work? Because if so we're done here. That's the view of a terrorist. People shouldn't be killed just because the ambulance that turned up to save them has a combustion engine.
Hey don't. Don't you be bringing facts into this. It completely goes against my preconceived notions. And I can't handle that.
It depends. While I don't say he was right, Many activists like "last generation" in Poland won't be persecuted more than few hours of social work for blocking hours long whole street including emergency ambulance. The activits group is actually using subsidized big flat at the city center of Warsaw and Warsaw governor doesn't care about this. There are double standards by current "good ( by EU ) government in Poland". There is a clear bias ( i wont say what side ) represented in most governments of EU
I don't really see how Poland (or the EU) are relevant to UK judges enforcing UK laws.
If what you're saying is right, that sounds pretty crazy, though. Purposely blocking emergency services, not caring if it kills people, should not be 3 hours of community service. That's fucking insane.
These are only the early, cases which have been easier to prove and process. They have just started charging people with riot, which carries a maximum 10 year sentence.
Oh get off that narrative. The guy was certifiable he literally told the judge that he would commit more crimes when released what exactly was going to happen. Stop with these victim complex, everything that happened to him was 100% his fault.
That's probably more a US/China/Russia thing.
Paul Williams, 45, was jailed for two years and two months on Friday after pleading guilty to one count of violent disorder in connection with the Sunderland riots.
The court heard he had entered the city centre to collect a takeaway, but ended up at the "forefront" of an "orgy of mindless destruction, violence and disorder".
His defence lawyer said he had no political opinions around immigration and was "entirely unaware of the basis of what started this".
Newcastle Crown Court heard Williams threw metal fencing and a can of beer at police, stripped off his shirt and ran at the line of riot shields.
It makes you wonder what goes on in some people's heads (or doesn't go on).
he had entered the city centre to collect a takeaway
That’s one expensive takeway. I hope it was tasty.
So he just innocently went into town to get a takeaway wearing an ill-fitting St George’s cross t-shirt?
What a spot of luck for him!
To be fair to him (and I'm not feeling fair), that photo is of the previously mentioned rioter who was done for inciting violence, which totally wouldn't believe looking at his picture.
His defence lawyer said he had no political opinions around immigration and was "entirely unaware of the basis of what started this".
That was his defense? Granted he didn't exactly leave his lawyer with much option but that's a terrible defense.
"I don't know why I did it judge, I did it anyway. Can I go now?"
Mackems. What can I say?
Meanwhile, Ashkan Kareem, 33, has been jailed for 12 months after participating in a clash in Darlington on 5 August.
Kareem said he was trying to protect a mosque from being attacked by "racists".
The presiding judge said Kareem was part of a group which gathered in opposition to men "chanting racist and far-right slogans", but it was "abundantly clear that would result in violence and it did".
So we are American school systems now? Defend yourself, believe it or not, straight to jail. What if he wasn't part of a group, and they attack him? Still jail?
I get what the judge is saying, but that is fucking bull shit. If I can't protect my own beliefs, why do they get to roll down the street screaming hate?
(Disclaimer, I am from America, but I can see how it could read differently)
not knowing more context than what you provided, he was not protecting himself: he was protecting a building. they were looking to make the situation violent, and he provided the catalyst
If I see a hate group coming for my shit, my people, my property, my fucking anything, you are god damned right I'll do what I have to do to protect it. If it is me against ten, you are fucking right I'm hitting up the homies for backup. If you are actually being genuine, you are part of the problem
property is not worth violence
So I've sat down, cooled off, and really thought about this. You are right. This wasn't about property though. This was about his people and their beliefs. This was a sacred place of worship
The uk isn't like Texas where you get gunned down for trespassing or shoplifting, life and peace is valued over property. Please don't try and export your capitalist obsession for property over people to the rest of the world.
my people
You conveniently ignored that in your life and peace values
I don't think that Lush haul will cover all the missed Christmases and birthdays.
Does he get to keep the loot tho
I'm not a lawyer, but I think Supermarket Sweep rules apply.
Can you pick me some soap up from Lush, Honey?
The last soap he'll be picking up for a while!
Get it? Prison rape hahahaha