Sorry, haven't almost all our European industries relied heavily on government subsidies, privatization of previously public entities, protectionism and so on? China is a socialist country, of course the government is subsidizing production. The reality is that China is outcompeting capitalist Europe (now sacrificed by the US) on capitalist terms. This move seems like an abandonment of free market laissez faire thinking in favour of mercantilism/outright iron curtain, while blaming it on the other guy.
this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2024
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China is a socialist country,
Lol
Well, yeah, it's complicated and all that, but still. For instance, did you know Huawei is a cooperative? I just learned.
Well, yeah, it's complicated and all that, but still. For instance, did you know Huawei is a cooperative? I just learned.
Everything depends on the central government in China, whether it is a cooperative, a listed company, or a single person critical of the CCP. In tbe end, nothing happens without a highly centralized government.
I think it's hard to tell and would advise against bombastic blanket statements like this, especially on China. We're talking about one billion people and the world's largest economy, after all. Our ability to clearly analyze China is hindered by its own opaqueness, but one should not forget the thick layer of propaganda we in the West are served whenever we're talking about one of the so-called strategic adversaries.
I posted a link above, there's enough information available and certainly more than one can post here. In a nutshell: nothing good ever comes from an authoritarian regime.
There you go again making blanket statements, giving you a look of either being a little daft and unnuanced or some kind of propagandist. "Nothing good", unless you count biggest lift of people from poverty in history. Imagine two people being born in the sixties in India and China respectively. Both are dirt poor back then. Today one will still be poor, still in a third world country, while the other drives EVs, get their power from worlds largest green energy infrastructure, has working public services, best train system, etc.
Imagine two people being born in the sixties in India and China respectively.
I will happily imagine. Will you?
China: 55 million dead.
India: not.
Please note that the 55 million estimate is from a CCP party school official, not from a western historian - thus we can safely conclude that the number may well be higher.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
And I say this as someone as far left as left goes. We must not be blind to the crimes that have been committed, and are being committed, by terrible dictatorships that hide behind the ideas of Marx.
China is a state capitalist dictatorship engaged in genocide as we speak. Whether or not they have the audacity to call themselves socialist, or even communist, does not change their crimes.
And I say this as someone as far left as left goes.
This is much like beginning a comment with "I'm not racist, but", with the inevitable horrible racism that follows. Your comment is such a gross simplification of history and dismissal of context, that it borders on the malign. For instance the number in your source says 15-55 million, not 55 million. The ideological broadside is very apparent. Facts not feelings, to paraphrase a broken clock.
- Yes, China had a terrible famine in the 60s, but far left people tend to consider it in context China's historical famines, as well as the many millions dead to capitalist induced famine.
- Leftists tend to consider deaths and consequences of capitalist imperialism when discussing foreign and developing nations.
- Today India is listed as a country in "Serious" risk in the Global Hunger Index, while China is of course "Low".
These are just three aspects of context, of many, which you could have chosen to inform your comment. In stead it is perpetuating a US-vs-Them cold war, black and white rhetoric, making the West out to be exceptionally good, while China is entirely bad. Smart people smell the lies included in such oversimplification a long way. You run fast and loose with your facts, presenting allegations of Uyghur genocide as fact, while you probably know how the UN will not call it that, after long running and thorough investigations, a lack of evidence, etc. On the other hand, we in Europe are very much facilitating the ongoing genocide in Palestine, of which there is ample coverage.
For instance the number in your source says 15-55 million, not 55 million.
Your statement is incorrect. I will quote for you.
Death toll in millions: 55
Researcher: Yu Xiguang (余习广)
Yu is an independent Chinese historian and a former instructor at the Central Party School of the Chinese Communist Party, estimated that 55 million people died due to the famine. His conclusion was based on two decades of archival research.
Facts not feelings, to paraphrase a broken clock.
There is so much irony in this sentence, that if it were edible, could feed the people Mao killed and then some.
Much of the rest of your response jumps back and forth between ad hominem, whataboutism, non sequitur, false equivalence and condescension to such an extent that it does not warrant a reply.
the world’s largest economy
Incorrect. It is the second or third largest, behind the USA and the EU, depending on whether you count the EU as one economic entity.
China actually doing something about the climate crisis, and they actively get in the way. Shows how far our govs will go to prevent us from fixing this world.
A lot of electricity is still made with fossil fuels and new cars (even electric) are worse for the environment than buying used
On top of that China is trying to get rid of competition with subsidies
It's not as black and white as you think
We are in the middle of a climate crisis where every year of inaction dooms countless to death or at the very least catastrophically reduced quality of life.
It is absolutely one of the few things that is actually black and white.
Is China playing unfair? Yes, but it really doesn’t matter at this point, they are making more EVs and the correct response at this point is just to do the same.
We are in an emergency, act accordingly.
Slavery or forced labour, which is arguably a major economic driver for EV in China, is not the solution. We don't act accordingly if we allow something like that.
By this logic buying any modern electronic devices or tools is not acting accordingly.
Also, I’m sorry I just don’t buy that this has anything to do with giving a shit about Chinese workers, it’s about portraying China as the Big Bad .
By this logic buying any modern electronic devices or tools is not acting accordingly.
This is largely true, and it is largely true because a lot of modern electronic devices -or at least some of their parts- are 'Made in China'.
Europe must urgently work to gain back its production capabilities and force out any unfair competition, whoever this is or will be.
As the world's largest electricity producer with around 30% of global output, China still heavily depends on cheap coal. What happens in China is everything but ecological so far, unfortunately, very much as in the West.
That aside, Chinese cars are cheap not in the least through the use of forced labour in Xinjiang. It's a serious human rights problem, too.
There are a lot of good reports and investigations about forced labour in China across the web (as well as here on Lemmy). Those who also like watching documentaries may like
China: The Repressive Economic Giant
As China's influence continues to expand around the world, at home the regime is becoming more repressive. A UN report has denounced crimes against humanity against the Uyghurs and the international community has criticised its bullying stance towards Taiwan. Reports and analysis of the Middle Kingdom.
Addition for a warning: some of the documentaries contain content that may distress users.