Ask Lemmy

China really isn't as communist as they and their antagonists claim.

Yes, I’ve seen it. I never asked.

China is about as communist as the Democratic Republic of (insert any country that used that prefacing moniker).

China is communist

Not really.

Communist would mean the workers own the means of production. If they truely did, then they wages wouldn't be so low while the west get to benefit from cheap labor.

Rental properties still exist, landlords still exist. Usually the tenants are migrant workers from rural areas and the landlords are people who happened to have money to buy up few apartments in the city. ("Buy" is really a misnomer tbh, you're buying the remainder of a 70-year lease term)

When the tenants don't pay, the landlord will keep calling you or put up a notice on your front door and keep nagging for you to pay. But if it last for a few months, the lanlord usually engages in self-help eviction. Waiting for the tenant to be not at home, then go in and change the locks.

Sometimes, the public security bureau (police) will help the landlord if they have leases and can clearly show the tenant be in the wrong.

Sometimes, they would also help the tenant retrive their belongings if the landlord didn't give them the opportunity to get their stuff and just locked everything inside.

Often times, the tenants would just leave before the landlord starts doing self-help evictions to "save face".

Court hearings for residential evictions are rare. Even most criminal issues (things like petty theft, simple assault) are settled outside of court. Things like fighting is just mediated by the public security bureau.

This is assuming residential leases. Commercial leases would probably end in a lawsuit.

As for what happens after evictions, I'm not sure about that. In China, most migrant workers would have an "ancestral home" that's passed down each generation. its usually given to the eldest son, but if everyone already went to the cities to look for work, then it'd be empty and they'd just tell the elders who you were, hope someone recognize you and confirm your identity, and you then ask for the keys. If a family member is already home, then I guess you just knock on the doors and say hi. (Although, I'm not sure what happens if someone has multiple decendants and they all simultanesly got kicked out of the cities.)

For those with Urban Hukou, I think they just have to go to a homeless shelter since they likely don't have "ancestral homes". Its a homeless shelter just like in the US, overcrowded and not fun to be in.

This is anecdotes from people I know, I can't find much news sources reporting on this. So take it with a grain of salt.

For actual answers, internet searches isn't gonna reveal a lot. Maybe go visit a Chinatown in the west and try to talk to a first-generation immigrant? (and bring a translator with you)

Are there homeless in China? Yes

Is there extreme poverty in China? Yes

One thing that western people rarely truly understand is that there are also workers putting in 70+ hour weeks living in company forms under conditions so bad it makes American prisons seem reasonable, and not actually getting ahead with money because they are sending it all to their family in the countryside just to keep them fed.

There are also more than a hundred million Chinese people who don't even have running water.

They also have tens of million people living rich in luxury apartments driving luxury cars with servants to do everything.

This is the sort of specialized question that should be asked in a specialized community, rather than here. It even concerns a country, and communities always exist for countries.

Honestly, you're probably going to have a hard time getting a legitimate answer from someone with experience. Misinformation and disinformation are likely to be tried on both sides but the reality is that it's very difficult to really know.

1. Even when China does release statistics, you have to take it with a grin of salt.
2. homeless statistics, accounts and even acknowledgement of their existence is hard to trust even in the most democratic societies simply because of the nature of homeless living. Homeless generally tend to avoid official looking people if they can.
3. propaganda abounds from every angle when it comes to homeless, propaganda built from within, for within. Propaganda built from within, for export. Propaganda from outside, for themselves. Propaganda from outside, built for us.
4. The odds of getting first hand experience from a homeless (or formerly) person in China, on Lenny is unrealistically small. A large portion of Chinese housed don't have internet, let alone the homeless. What I can guarantee you is that it's not like the homeless you see in the west. They're not sitting outside of a Starbucks on a cell phone.

I am going to assume you are American here which I normally avoid but it is relevant to this context. Other countries do not have homelessness like America does. I know people from the war torn countries like Iraq that have come to America and been horrified by the depravity with which we treat our poorest. I have even known people that returned to their relatively dangerous home country because they were poor and found western society too alienating and heartless. So when we talk about homelessness in China I need to insist that the Chinese people do not have this culture. They are incredibly recently industrialized and still have HIGHLY isolated rural regions. I've seen villages only accessible by foot beyond a certain point. This may seem irrelevant because homelessness is a largely urban phenomenon but I mention it to show how prevalent their sense of communal identity still is. In recent years a wealthy urban individualist sub-culture has developed but even still few in China would say that a homeless person is at fault for their homelessness. Instead homelessness is looked upon as a failure of their government and it is because of this that homelessness in China is considerably lower than other countries of similar or even greater economic developement. To give you an idea, over 90% of families in China own a home. For the 10% that do not, rent is 30% of their income at most and usually less (though this is a recently development caused by the "Homes are for living, not for investment" act). Homelessness is low in China because the people find homelessness unacceptable and the government is able and willing to interfere with the profits of private housing investors in order to insure it does not occur. To the Chinese state, someone who is homeless is someone who's labor goes unutilized. For the American state a homeless person is an implicit threat that keeps its laborers working.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_China

I'd probably start there.

Yes. I’ve been there a few times and there are homeless people in the major cities. The property market is largely capitalistic. Maybe someone with more expertise can elaborate but there (or maybe were?) restrictions on working in some cities. Basically like “internal” immigration restrictions.

The policies may not be around anymore and they weren’t necessarily made with ill-intent. It was more of a “Beijing can’t handle anymore people until we build housing and water infrastructure.” But people obviously go where economic opportunity is no matter what governments say. So, there are people working in the informal economy illegally like “illegal immigrants” might be classified in the U.S. or Europe. It’s not like shanty towns or favelas, in my limited experience, but there are slums with, at best, makeshift shelters.

I’m not making excuses for another country but to me, it was like in the West but at a different scale and so a different situation. Some of the policies struck me as harsh at first but I don’t know what the fuck to do if a city’s infrastructure really can’t handle sudden mass migration. And they do build public housing, even if often in ways I wouldn’t. (For instance, demolishing what are to me historic neighborhoods to build giant apartment towers. But I also understand that what’s “historic” to an American is a laughably small period of time.)

I’m trying to be fair, here. Like in any country, there’s homelessness, mental illness, addiction, etc. but I don’t think the Chinese government is ignoring it any more than my own country. And I don’t know what it’s like to have zillions of years of history and over a billion people. Hopefully, someone who lives there can correct any mistakes I’ve made in this summary.

I'd argue to say in some aspects, China is more capitalist. Though, some good things showing for them is that they're extremely innovative and fast growing. But absolutely capitalist.

No, they eat the homeless in China.