That's because we are...
If .y Firefox will once again be updated without asking me and then refusing to open any page without a restart I'll fucking lose it
this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2025
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Wait hold on wait, does that bullshit have something with Firefox being distributed through Snap?
If it does, I'm going to sn... also fucking lose it
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What's wrong with Snap?
EDIT: I had minimal exposure to Snap, sometimes Snap was my only option to get some software on Linux in a decent version and without getting into dependency hell while trying to compile it (why can't someone make a package manager for C/C++?). I do see the issue with proprietary servers though.
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I need nothing but apt or dnf. Miss me with that other junk.
Muh portage thoπ²
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Are there enough watermarks on this meme? At least we got reddit covered.
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If flatpak didn't make me put the entirety of KDE onto my system (thats an exaggeration but you know what I mean) I'd gladly crown it king of the package managers.
I just want to point out the dependencies of Konsole (arguably a small and simple application in concept): glibc gcc-libs icu kbookmarks kcolorscheme kconfig kconfigwidgets kcoreaddons kcrash kdbusaddons kglobalaccel kguiaddons ki18n kiconthemes kio knewstuff knotifications knotifyconfig kparts kpty kservice ktextwidgets kwidgetsaddons kwindowsystem kxmlgui qt6-5compat qt6-base qt6-multimedia sh.
Plus make it hell on earth to a) access drives other than the one flatpak is installed on, b) interoperate with non-flatpak applications, and c) retain any amount of free space on my drives (exaggeration for effect).
Yeah, flatseal should come stock with flatpak IMO. You will have to configure many apps to get them to play nice with your system.
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Psst .. the first KDE app you installed via your package manager also put "the entirety of KDE" onto your system.
i don't think I use any kde apps on my system at all
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Let the hate of the crowd wash over me, but I don't even like Flatpak, and I've got love-hate (mostly hate) relationship with AppImage as well.
Just give me a system package or a zipped tarball.
In recent years, have had to just get used to needing to build most projects from source.
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A stab at my personal ranking: .deb > appimage > flatpack > curling a shell script
I can't help but love a .deb file (even when not via repo), I've almost exclusively used Debian and it derivatives since the late 90s. And snap isn't on the list because it got stored in a loopback device I removed.
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laughs in Nix and NixOS
How the hell do you learn to use nix. I'm not a programer but figured out how to run gentoo just fine with the guide. nixOS feels like I'm in a mirror maze in the dark and the room is rotating.
Well, Nix is a programming language, so thereβs no getting around having to learn basic principles of coding.
That said, I feel like coming into Nix with a lot of programming experience actually worked against me at first, because I made a lot of assumptions that werenβt true and basically had to βunlearnβ certain things.
The main things being:
- Lazy evaluation is trippy as hell sometimes
- The language truly does not allow for side-effects. Everything you might think is a side-effect is really executed from outside the language runtime itself
- It might be more accurate to think of Nix as a database, where the keys are the parameters of what to build and the values are directories full of the built artifacts
What really made it click for me was seeing how a derivation object is basically equivalent to a path. So if I do β${pkgs.foo}/barβ, thatβs the exact absolute path (plus /bar) where Nix will end up storing the output of the pkgs.foo derivation. Even without actually building the derivation, you can know where it will end up.
Anyway, the documentation is pretty shitty, so you basically have to scour every community resource you can find and read way more of it than it seems like you should have to. Discord/Matrix servers help a lot too. And learning to navigate the source code for nixpkgs.
Also: Donβt start with NixOS, imo. Start with dumb throwaway stuff where you make a derivation that downloads a file and unzips it and runs a single command. Once you understand that, do something that requires understanding a bit of nixpkgs, like using overlays. Then you can use NixOS. Otherwise, thereβs too much going on all at once.
Edit:
- Nix pills is good
- Vimjoyer is amazing
A rusty bucket riddled with holes and the stick part of a shovel is better than snap for running software.
my issue with snaps is honestly just that they are controlled too much by just one entity (canonical) and there is no reason for them to exist because flatpak already does everything they do.
My issue with snaps is also the power that Canonical has to fuck you over one day, because of the centralization that you mentioned, but also that their shitty fucking packaging format sucks ass and breaks everything but the most basic of apps. I've wasted hours trying to help people with their broken applications that were hijacked when they typed apt install whatever and "whatever" was actually a fucking broken snap package.
Flatpaks and AppImages actually do the fucking things they're supposed to. Snaps don't, and Canonical is pulling a Microsoft by hijacking your package manager.
Also, Snap sandboxing only works with AppArmor, so if you were hoping that all the breakage was worthwhile because you get sandboxing, you don't if you're on anything but a handful of distros π
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Hadn't snap fixed a lot of the complaints people initially had?
Not the biggest: User choice.
Probably, but the stink will linger for quite a long time.
There's a burger place near my house that I use to go to almost every week. But then the quality started going down, and I stopped going there. That was two years ago. Maybe they fixed the problems, but I'm not going to know - because I no longer go there. Snap is like that.
I think the main complaint is that it seems like Canonical is trying take control of Linux packaging. Don't they handle their stuff in a way that pretty much prevents third party 'Snap Stores'? Like, their backend being closed source and their software only accepting their own signatures?
I dont know for sure so disregard what I say. but I remember reading that users could host their own snap repos but canonicals one was the only one at the moment. Everything about snap is open source except the webserver.
Yeah the API is open and there used to be an open store, but lack of interest ended up with the project shutting down. As it turns out people don't like alternative stores nearly as much as they like the idea of alternative stores.
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