this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2024
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Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.

If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.

Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, upvoting good contributions and downvoting those of low-quality!

Rules

0. Only post socialist memes

That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)

1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here

Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.

2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such,

as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.

3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.

That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).

4. No Bigotry.

The only dangerous minority is the rich.

5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.

We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.

(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)

6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.

Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.

7. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:

(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)

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[–] sudo@programming.dev 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Patrol Cop once told me a joke about how he ran over a black kids bike. When got back to the station he saw the kid at the desk trying to report the incident. He'd carried his busted up bike the entire way. The cop behind the desk called out "Hey Rob, did you run over this kid's bike?". "Nope". Case closed. No report filed.

Edit: PS: This was one of the "good ones". He voted Clinton in 2016 because the rival faction in the Union was showing up to Trump rallies in class A's. Took him the entire Trump admin but he works retail now.

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[–] Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I don't know in what shithole of a country you guys live to hate cops, but here they are just decent, helpful protectors they ought to be. Never ever met one single piece-of-shit-cop in my life. There surely are rotten apples, but that is due to being human, not being a cop. There is no field of anything where everything's sunshine and lollipops. Maybe it's a case of how you treat them? You know, like give respect, earn respect? That thing?

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 months ago (14 children)

I was talking about real cops in more civilised countries. Not untrained us-american gun-monkeys. For the US my statement surely isn't valid.

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[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Hello, you seem to be referencing an often misquoted statistic. TL:DR; The 40% number is wrong and plain old bad science. In attempt to recreate the numbers, by the same researchers, they received a rate of 24%, but only while considering acts like shouting as violence. Further researchers found rates of 7%, 7.8%, 10%, and 13% with stricter definitions and better research methodology.

The 40% claim is intentionally misleading and unequivocally inaccurate. Numerous studies over the years report domestic violence rates in police families as low as 7%, with the highest at 40% defining violence to include shouting or a loss of temper. The referenced study where the 40% claim originates is Neidig, P.H.., Russell, H.E. & Seng, A.F. (1992). Interspousal aggression in law enforcement families: A preliminary investigation. It states:

Survey results revealed that approximately 40% of the participating officers reported marital conflicts involving physical aggression in the previous year.

There are a number of flaws with the aforementioned study:

The study includes as 'violent incidents' a one time push, shove, shout, loss of temper, or an incidents where a spouse acted out in anger. These do not meet the legal standard for domestic violence. This same study reports that the victims reported a 10% rate of physical domestic violence from their partner. The statement doesn't indicate who the aggressor is; the officer or the spouse. The study is a survey and not an empirical scientific study. The “domestic violence” acts are not confirmed as actually being violent. The study occurred nearly 30 years ago. This study shows minority and female officers were more likely to commit the DV, and white males were least likely. Additional reference from a Congressional hearing on the study: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951003089863c

An additional study conducted by the same researcher, which reported rates of 24%, suffer from additional flaws:

The study is a survey and not an empirical scientific study. The study was not a random sample, and was isolated to high ranking officers at a police conference. This study also occurred nearly 30 years ago.

More current research, including a larger empirical study with thousands of responses from 2009 notes, 'Over 87 percent of officers reported never having engaged in physical domestic violence in their lifetime.' Blumenstein, Lindsey, Domestic violence within law enforcement families: The link between traditional police subculture and domestic violence among police (2009). Graduate Theses and Dissertations. http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/etd/1862

Yet another study "indicated that 10 percent of respondents (148 candidates) admitted to having ever slapped, punched, or otherwise injured a spouse or romantic partner, with 7.2 percent (110 candidates) stating that this had happened once, and 2.1 percent (33 candidates) indicating that this had happened two or three times. Repeated abuse (four or more occurrences) was reported by only five respondents (0.3 percent)." A.H. Ryan JR, Department of Defense, Polygraph Institute “The Prevalence of Domestic Violence in Police Families.” http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/virtual_disk_library/index.cgi/4951188/FID707/Root/New/030PG297.PDF

Another: In a 1999 study, 7% of Baltimore City police officers admitted to 'getting physical' (pushing, shoving, grabbing and/or hitting) with a partner. A 2000 study of seven law enforcement agencies in the Southeast and Midwest United States found 10% of officers reporting that they had slapped, punched, or otherwise injured their partners. L. Goodmark, 2016, BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY LAW REVIEW “Hands up at Home: Militarized Masculinity and Police Officers Who Commit Intimate Partner Abuse “. https://digitalcommons.law.umaryland.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2519&context=fac_pubs

[–] kungen@feddit.nu 1 points 2 months ago

TL;DR: only ~10% of police are confirmed assailants of domestic abuse!

[–] PotatoKat@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I'm gonna be that person right now, but i really don't care if it's a misleading or misquoted stat. If they get to throw around 13/50 or that trans suicide number without any care to the actual reasons I'm gonna throw around 40% self report to domestic abuse. Just like you can't stop them, you can't stop me. It'd be different if I had a platform of some kind, but I don't. If someone finds out misrepresented something oh well, they'll fine the correct info eventually and by that point they may have been swayed to our side by doing further digging. Go ahead and down vote internet numbers mean nothing to me.

BTW did you know that 40% of cops abuse their spouse?

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

i really don't care if it's a misleading or misquoted stat.

I'm frankly not surprised. Decent, honest people do, though, hence my effort to reveal that it is, in fact, a bogus stat, so that said people will know to disregard both it, and those like you, who continue to spread it in the name of their narrative despite knowing it's bogus.

People who care more about maintaining and propagating their biases/prejudices than about being honest and truthful, are abhorrent scum, and don't belong in civilized society.

[–] Alkali@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The main problem though is this falls into the paradox of tolerance. Essentially, one group has been found to manipulate stats. However, the focus is on the other group's manipulation rather than accuracy across the board. This ends up working as a form of oppression through bias enforcement of the social contract. Not saying you are going that, just pointing out a possible bases for the other person's comments.

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

The main problem though is this falls into the paradox of tolerance.

lmao, no it fucking doesn't. If you want to make an assertion, any assertion, and back it up with evidence, that evidence should be, well, not bullshit.

That's all there is to it.

And if your assertion is actually correct, but X amount of attention is taken away from it because you're spreading bullshit in support of it, that's your own damn fault. If you're right, you don't have to lie to prove it.

[–] kaffiene@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Lying to support your position is how people lose trust in arguments. I'm used to seeing this kind of BS from the RW but it's disappointing to see it from the left. We need to be better than this or discussion becomes completely useless

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

There are few things more frustrating, politics-wise, than seeing someone who you presumably fundamentally agree with on issue X, fuck everything up by exaggerating or fabricating evidence.

It's better to get called out by someone who isn't interested in doing anything but correcting them. Could easily be fuel to completely reject the premise if it was someone else.

[–] PotatoKat@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

If people were convinced by facts and logic we wouldn't have had trump as president and the ADF wouldn't have any power in Germany. Snappy soundbites are necessary. Why do you think you heard 13/50 everywhere? Because it's easy to remember and it sounds good. Same thing with 41%. You'll be hard pressed to find someone that's willing to do a whole bunch of reading to understand why ACAB unless they are already predisposed to believe you. 40% is a potential gateway in, and when they are along that path and see all the problems with cops, it won't really matter when they find out that the 40% wasn't true.

So go ahead, be disappointed, go ahead downvote, or whatever. But if you think winning only involves playing fair and honest you have another thing coming and it's very far right from what you want.

[–] kaffiene@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

I don't think that all people are convinced by facts. I do think that eventually those who CAN be swayed are swayed by honesty.

[–] blackn1ght@feddit.uk 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Serious question: What's the leftists position on police in the ideal but realistic socialist world? What would make ACAB irrelevant?

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

They wouldn't exist in this form under anarchism at all. However they're still very much bastards under ML-regimes as well.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The conflict between ACAB and All Vigilantes Are Also Bastards has always been my primary concern with anarchism tbh.

[–] kaffiene@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

I feel like people who enforce rules are necessary in any society. I note that cops in Scotland or New Zealand manage to do their job without killing lots of citizens. I dont think that being murderous unaccountable over-militarised gang is necessary to do the job.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (11 children)

Socialism removes the fact that Police serve the wealthy, rather than the people, so this inherently means they aren't class traitors.

There would be an expansion of social programs and services, better access to housing, and overall fewer crimes of desparation.

[–] blackn1ght@feddit.uk 0 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Police serve the wealthy, rather than the people

Are there common every day examples where this happens? I'll be honest my exposure to the police is extremely limited and from a UK perspective. Do you mean like the police will prioritise responding faster to wealthy people and are more likely to put resources in solving crimes against them than your average person?

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