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how am I supposed to understand this, what is the context here?
An Israeli player said "It's known that they are quite anti-semitic" and the entire irish team felt so offended by that that they decided not to shake the hands of the israeli team? To show them how unfounded the allegations are?
What are the details here? the article doesn't really say much
You too, seem to misunderstand the same thing that the Israeli team misunderstood. ~~Sweden~~ Ireland does not like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. ~~Sweden~~ Ireland has nothing against Jews but does not like Israel's genocide on Palestine. There is a difference between the country and the religion and antisemitism is used for the religion alone.
It's like if you argue that you're getting downvoted because of antisemitism when you're actually being downvoted because you are wrong. It has nothing to do with religion
that's what's odd about it. The article says the reason the team didn't shake hands was because of 'wholly inaccurate accusations of antisemitism'. So does that mean they would have shaken hands if one of the israeli team members had not made that accusation? Or were they just looking for a reason? This is what seems odd to me. If we imagine Ireland playing against an african nation that is also torn by war and conflict. If one of their team members accused the irish team of racism, and as a consequence, the entire irish team refuses to shake hands with the African team because they are so offended by these accusations. That would be really weird. That's why I asked for more context.
There is a difference between the country and the religion and antisemitism is used for the religion alone.
That is incorrect. Anti-Judaism is the (much older) component of antisemitism that is used for religion alone. While it is wrong to say that any criticism against israel is antisemitic, it is equally wrong to say that criticizing Israel is never antisemitic. in some cases it is. Sadly many people refuse to have this discussion. Israel exists because of antisemitism, not the other way around.
You need to edit Wikipedia for you to be rigt
Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism)[a] is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews.[2][3][4]
It says Jews not Isrealis and we're back to it being about religion and not the nationality
I don't. If you click on "Jews" on the wikipedia it says right in the beginning:
Jews (Hebrew: ΧΦ°ΧΧΦΌΧΦ΄ΧΧβ, ISO 259-2: Yehudim, Israeli pronunciation: [jehuΛdim]) or Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group[12] and nation[13][14][15][16][17]
The jewish are a people. Many of them aren't even religious. Antisemitism created israel. and not the other way around.
Here another wikipedia article on distinguishing antisemitism and criticism of Israel.
It sounds like you are right, but I don't feel this is the way it's being used. Or maybe the world is moving towards a distinction and seperatuon of the two?
Also, what do you mean with Israel exists because of antisemitism?
Well I think the reality is really complex and intertwined. Jewish people live in Israel because, historically speaking, they aren't safe anywhere else. In this context here: It would be safe to say that the jewish player's ancestors sought refuge in Israel because they were not welcome in the country they previously lived in (That could be Germany, Russia, Yemen, Iran etc). Many of them had no other choice and for many, Israel was the only hope for a life in dignity and safety. Completely separating jewish identity and israeli identity is impossible, it is connected.
but I donβt feel this is the way itβs being used
In a way I agree. The concept of anti-semitism is used when it is convenient. People are called anti-semites when they call out the war crimes commited by Israelis far right government, and likewise people categorically refuse to acknowledge that criticizing israel can be antisemitic. It is totally polarized, and people don't care about context anymore.
what do you mean with Israel exists because of antisemitism?
Zionism is a movement founded by european jews who have suffered from persecution for centuries. So they believe that to protect themselves from their oppression, they needed an own nation. Jews started to understand themselves as a people. And not to mention, The Shoa made millions of people seek refuge in Israel/Palestine after world war two. So in short, if anti-semitism wasn't a thing, the nation-state of Israel wouldn't even be an idea.
Well I think the reality is really complex and intertwined. Jewish people live in Israel because, historically speaking, they arenβt safe anywhere else.
I hear this claim a lot. But in the view of the recent killing of over a thousand Israeli's this really doesn't seem to be true. Israel also constantly claim to be surrounded by hostile nations which would eradicate all of them given the chance. From this perspective countries like the US, while far from being free of antisemitism seem more safe for Jews than Israel.
The only thing Israelis in Israel are safe from, is antisemitism from the sate. But as we've seen the state has catastrophically failed to ensure the safety of their citizens. And they continue to make the whole situation worse and are currently ensuring that at least for one or two generations the hatred between Israel and Palestine will continue.
I guess that is the big tagedy. which leads a lot of israeli into very militant and isolationist positions. Defending autonomy and self determination at all costs. Which also causes a lot of suffering on other people.
Big tragedy is a pretty apt description of the whole fucking shit show in that conflict.
No, its the irish team refusing to shake the hand of the israely team, not the whole country, this headline is misleading. Also, wtf is the basketball team of israel supposed to do if their political leaders go ham? i dont get it.
Also, wtf is the basketball team of israel supposed to do if their political leaders go ham?
If they don't agree with the current politics of their country? At the very least be very outspoken about it or just don't play at all under their flag. If you play for a national team in an international competition between nations, then of course you do represent the country. And that representation of course also includes current actions which many find at least very concerning.
Or you can just label anyone who criticises Israel as anti-semitic. That's after all what the right wing extremists of Israel do constantly to shit blame away from their disgusting actions.
I don't get your points. The headline refers to the Irish team rather than the whole country as you appear to claim, and the Irish team members refused to shake hands after the remarks by an Israeli player which has nothing to do with their political leaders. Maybe I get this wrong but I don't understand your comment.
It says >Ireland women's basketball team refuse to shake hands with Israel
Not the isreali team.
Yeah, if taken literally you're right, but isn't that clear in the context? The Ireland women's basketball team wouldn't shake hands with the whole of Israel, right? It's what is meant imho.
Well, it is common that the term "Israel" is used in a very generalizing way. "Ireland refuses to shake hands with Israel's Basketball team" would be misleading in a similar way, but this generalization is so common that people don't really notice it anymore
It is inerrant to sport to be political. People are competing in teams based on political borders. Issues won't disappear because it's sport. It's socially here and teams take these with them.
then dont compete against israel, but going and not shaking hands but still promoting (in a way) the israely team just feels wrong. its like going to qatar to play but wearing a rainbow flag, its virtue signaling nothing more.
its like going to qatar to play but wearing a rainbow flag, its virtue signaling
People didn't even end up wearing rainbow flags because they were threatened with consequences. it was basically virtue-signaling-signaling
Yeah, embarrassing through and through
It's known that they are quite anti-semitic
I love it when isrealis reveal that they can't differentiate between their nationality and the religion
Treating people badly because they happen to be from Israel isn't political commentary.
It's antisemitism, plain and simple.
You're doing it right now too! Antisemitism is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews not Israelis. The reason why these players did not want to shake hands with the Israeli team is not because they are Jews, but because they are Israeli. Yes they are refusing to shake hands with them because they are from Israel but its not because they are Jewish. It's because their country (Israel) is comiting genocide. They would not shake hands with any country that does this
I bet they'd shake hands with the US team, despite the fact that the US killed 50x more Arab civilians in order to "defend their interests" on the other side of the world.
Holding Israel to a standard you don't apply to any other nation on earth IS antisemitism.
The same behaviour was shown towards Russian athletes with regards to the invasion of Ukraine. Judging by your logic that would be, idk, anti-orthodox? Russophobic? It's symbolic and has nothing to do with the their opinion of the people they are competing against. It's not antisemitism, plain and simple.
oh yeah, that happens a LOT.
Great display of standing up against false "anti-semitic" claims, when criticizing the politics of Israel.
~~The article unfortunately does not state who won...does anyone know? The BBC basketball section obviously doesn't, at least I couldn't find it there.~~
Edit: The article actually states the result. Israel won 87-57. :/
Did the volleyball players kill Palestinian children?
Says is the article "which Israel won 87-57"
I seem to have skipped multiple times over that information. Thanks and sorry BBC!
Its even in the TLDR summary..quite embarassing. π―
We have to show that we're better than them and win.
I will edit comment, because it was poor taste and inappropriate, thus the responses
But still, this sounds at least the way Soviet sports teams were supposed to always be the best to prove a point of Soviets being best in everything. That's not how things work, you don't prove your point by beating someone, in sport or otherwise.
Now that is a fucking stretch. If you compare Jewish people with Nazis, don't complain when people call you an antisemite.
Jewish people =/= Israeli state.
yes, you are right: some israeli basketball player =/= the israeli state. sukhmel@programming.dev compared something a jewish individual said "We have to show that weβre better than them and win" to nazi ideology ("arian superiority"). Which is insane and antisemitic.
Moreover, comparing the israeli state to Nazi Germany is antisemitic as fuck too. There is no comparison to be made. It is trivializing Nazi ideology.
I don't agree with the other reply calling you an antisemite but that is still a huge stretch just to compare people to nazis. Have you never played a sport before
holocaust inversion is textbook modern antisemitism.