this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2024
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[–] Landslide7648@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Nope, not true. Stop spreading misinformation just because you want to get public praise.

You will not automatically get deported, but it will be made easier to deport foreigners who are praising terrorism. There’s a big difference. You always have legal recourse against this.

That’s important because the phrase “from the river to the sea” is not illegal praise of terrorism in Germany, even if you may have heard so from your equally misinformed bubble. While its use shows that the person saying has a big problem with accepting that a complex situation will certainly not be reflected in a catchy sentence, and that it may be time for that person to just excuse them from a discussion they are very likely not a part of, it is not illegal.

Why? Because courts will have to make the decision whether its use in a specific context was illegal, and more often than not it won’t be.

[–] merari42@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

In Germany, you can't currently deport anyone just for expressing extremist views. However, recently there were demonstrations in Hamburg where about 1,000 people marched to advocate for a caliphate and Sharia law in Germany, which led to a public debate about exactly this. However, this isn't about Palestine but about anti-constitutional extremism. Some state interior ministers are now advocating to explicitly outlaw this kind of islamist extremism, potentially paving the way for easier deportations for those advocating for a caliphate in Germany. Here's a german article on the topic.

[–] febra@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

the phrase “from the river to the sea” is not illegal praise of terrorism in Germany, even if you may have heard so from your equally misinformed bubble

Oh yeah, my misinformed bubble, the official government press conferences: https://youtu.be/lBmDdNZmToU?si=rsLM5CyTSjEFxBTI&t=353

Or DW https://www.dw.com/en/german-cabinet-backs-deportations-for-praise-of-terrorism/a-69480819

I've seen people (including jews) getting fined for hate speech for an instagram story containing just "from the river to the sea palestine will be free" From now on, that will also come with a deportation.

The highly esteemed german courts will have the freedom to decide what fits into which context. A social media like will land you in court. Saying that hamas committed terrorist acts but also that it is a resistance movement spawned out of the oppression will also land you in a court because any nuanced discussion is too much for the german intellect and instantly means "pRaIsInG tErRoRiSm".

I can't wait to see all the neolibs that clapped when the greens and the social democrats passed these laws, when the AfD gets in power here (which will definitely happen sooner or later, following the EU wide far right movements) and when they decide to reinterpret those "contexts" their highly esteemed german courts like to discuss so much. I'm sure this draconian stuff won't backfire. But hell, who cares, it's only Ausländer getting the short end of the stick anyway.

[–] Landslide7648@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] febra@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

So the blog post just states that the phrase isn't illegal to use but the state still decides to "investigate" its use often by using force, arrests, and by searching peoples' homes, confiscating their electronic devices and so on. It's good to hear that the "Verfassungsblog" argues that its use isn't generally illegal, but also states that the current police proceedings are going to great extent to intimidate people

[–] Landslide7648@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 4 months ago

You call them police proceedings, but it’s the public prosecutor’s office (Staatsanwaltschaft) that is calling the shots. Regardless, the article also states that two of the highest courts called the Verwaltungsgerichte have decided that the phrase isn’t illegal per se.

Of course it is illegal in the context of glorifying Hamas terrorism, as it should be. That also puts a responsibility on organisers of protests to make sure that they distance themselves from people who are ambiguous in their distancing from hamas, that’s a positive thing in my opinion.