this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
38 points (75.7% liked)

Memes

45535 readers
394 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] b3nsn0w@pricefield.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

no one can, not even those who advocate for it. (aside from "not that thing that was repeatedly tried and failed")

[–] nachtigall@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat.

from Principles of Communism by Friedrich Engels.

[–] b3nsn0w@pricefield.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And what would be those conditions?

[–] phthalocyanin@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

common ownership and control of the means of production in a classless moneyless stateless society governed via collective mutual determination or similar horizontal system of power.

[–] b3nsn0w@pricefield.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

oh, i see, makes sense then why it was never tried. how are we going to have a society without a state to govern it? (i mean not to concern troll here, if a solution can be created for this that would be genuinely interesting, but for example that council the soviets created a century ago was clearly a state)

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I love how you just keep flaunting your ignorance here. Communists aren't imbeciles who think that you can simply snap your fingers and abolish the state, they recognize the need for a transitional socialist period from the current system to a communist one.

[–] b3nsn0w@pricefield.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

and how do you wish to avoid that the leaders of said transitional socialist period just cling to power?

as someone who has to live in the aftermath of one of those "transitional socialist periods" that predictably went nowhere and just broke the country's spirit completely, i'm really damn curious. we are not talking about hypotheticals here.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I grew up in USSR and I certainly preferred it to what followed after the collapse. Claiming that it went nowhere is just brain dead. The fact is that USSR had to compete with the US empire after the war, and US being across the ocean was completely unscathed while USSR had to rebuild under duress. Of course, if you just ignore all that then you can make intellectually dishonest statements of the sort you do.

[–] b3nsn0w@pricefield.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

nice copium, but over here in hungary, one of the countries your glorious ussr managed to colonize that's not really the picture we got. the ten years following the collapse of the soviet system were by far the best ten years of this country in living memory, until the dust settled and an amalgamation of the old elite and the supposed revolutionaries took back control and re-instituted the same oligopoly, albeit with somewhat less oppression this time.

the whole point of having a transitional period between market capitalism and true communism is to reach that communism. that never happened. instead, the people were robbed of everything of value by an elite who claimed to represent the proletariat but was anything but that, and then it was re-privatized at the end of this period into the hands of a new elite. to give credit where it's due, this is in fact a redistribution of wealth, it just goes the other way than what's often heralded, and only made the rich richer and the average person more powerless.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

Enjoy your fascism, clearly that's your preferred political system in Hungary.

[–] Spinnyl@lemmy.today 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

If you lived in Russia then sure. If you lived in any of the annexed countries and preferred the priviledge of not being able to travel, secret police checking your every fart and people dying while trying to, for some inexplicable reason, escape to the evil west, then you're a traitor to your own people.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

meanwhile in the real world

[–] Spinnyl@lemmy.today 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, in the real world, some people have a very short and selective memories.

Fortunately statistics are quite clear in proving otherwise.

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/26/this-is-the-golden-age-eastern-europes-extraordinary-30-year-revival

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

In reality, the "revival" wasn't evenly distributed. Lots of people became destitute and exploited in the process, while a small minority of parasites started to enjoy lavish lifestyles built on their backs.

[–] Spinnyl@lemmy.today 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yes, that is true and those obscenely rich people shouldn't exist.

But, for me, anything is better than being at the mercy of a tyrannical regime hell bent on controlling all aspect of your life, turning people against each other and removing them for their opinions.

The USSR era was the worst thing in the modern history of Europe (yet) and anyone who idealizes it is, at best, scum.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -3 points 3 months ago