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Fuck Reason. Bunch of Libertarian bullshit. Don't believe a word they say.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Reason_(magazine)
They should have named it "Rationalization".
Propaganda is against the rules. OP has been turboposting articles from VOA and other heavily biased sources. Seems like a violation to me.
They kept insisting VOA had journalistic integrity even after I pointed out that they're run by the same organization whose brief is to broadcast American propaganda to Cuba.
Yeah - fuck those guys reporting on research done by the National Bureau of Economic Research and agreeing with the concluding opinion that "the study shows participants were better off, despite the decline in working hours and earnings. Indeed, maybe that's the whole point?" and "One person wants to learn new skills or start a business? Great! Others want to play video games all day? Awesome.".
I'm not seeing them agreeing with it. I'm seeing them call it bad news and a failure.
But think of the GDP!
There you go:
National study finds giving Americans $1,000 per month makes them work less.
A whole 1.3 hours a week or $490 per year at federal minimum wage. Essentially a rounding error. Also worth mentioning it doesn’t say what they were working before so this may simply be a reduction on overtime to take better care of other things such as family, health etc. there’s plenty of things other than finding a “better job” or “being an entrepreneur” that would fall into social or leisure but still reduce things like future healthcare, prison system expenses etc.
From the reason link:
It's also like, if they made $29,000/year before plus $12,000 during the study, they're still making less than someone with a full time job making $20/hour.
$20/hour felt AMAZING as a promotion to a broke-ass food service 20-something, and is a hell of a lot better than $29,000/year-- but having been in that pay-range before, 100% of that increase is going towards stability and comfort stuff.
Imagine-- you can afford more than just scraping by on rent! Wow, what if I can buy a video game?! You mean I can actually say yes when my friend invites me out for a drink this month??? I CAN BUY THE NICE CHICKEN NUGGETS???
Like, damn, of course they aren't like, "starting an entrepreneurial endeavor", they're still broke as hell. The might work a little less, but maybe that's because they're like, taking time off when they're sick, where before they would power through to afford rent? Or maybe they will feel more like they can call off work to help for family or friend emergencies? Like it's pretty obvious that this UBI amount still falls into the category of bringing people out of poverty stress into "normal human decision making" mode, not like into "has the space to be able to dream about visionary possibilities" mode
The idea that people should not be able to enjoy their lives and always have to keep clawing their way to the top to win at some imaginary race we're all running is so repellent to me.
Humans are just machines to libertarians. Except themselves of course. They're different. They won't be a cog. They're a free-thinker. You're an NPC.
Also, more leisure time as a bad thing. Christ.
I'm nearly certain my entire life has been a Truman show and that the movie with the same name by Jim Carrey was a psyop for plausible deniability.
As proof: Belgium. Belgium doesn't exist and it's irrational they'd make a good waffle when they have approximately zero maple trees.
Plus, there are several studies that have found the opposite, with both better sample sizes and methodology. If I were near my desktop, I could paste them for the terminally lazy, b/c I bookmark most BI articles and studies. I'll do so if someone challenges me in early August - I'm traveling until then.
It's a study. Not a very good one, but even bad ones can be informative. The interpretation leaves a lot to be desired.
P.S. The Center Square is also questionable. They characterize the study as a "massive study." It was three-year, 3000-participant study at $1k/m. A total of $108k, over three years. "Massive" is vast exaggeration.
Can you explain the $108k number and how you got it?
Decimal point displacement. Something I do all the time, unfortunately, when I'm doing mental math... I drop zeros. I consider it a character flaw.
$108M. A couple of orders of magnitude bigger, but still; over three years, far from "massive."
That article claims the study is from the National Bureau of Economic Research. Let's look into who funds them.
https://winephysicssong.com/2010/09/16/where-does-the-national-bureau-of-economic-research-get-its-money/
Of course, that was from a 2010 article. Let's see who funds them now.
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/National_Bureau_of_Economic_Research
Huh. No new information.
In fact, I can't find any new information anywhere.
I wonder why that could be?
There you go again:
Support & Funding
Oh you're right! They do show who is funding them these days!
I'm sure none of those corporations have a vested interest in stopping UBI from being implemented or anything.
Even those corporations who are down in the supporters list don't give a shit about UBI.
You're right, banks and investment firms wouldn't care at all about UBI. My mistake.
Also, leisure time is bad. People should be productive and find better jobs, not relax.
You did not read the article if this is your conclusion.
So you're claiming that the article doesn't claim that people would not be productive enough under UBI? Shall I quote it?
There you go:
The actual numbers:
For every $1 given to each of the 1000 test subjects, income dropped by $0.12 cents on average. That means that the overall drop in pay was $12 per month, or less than 2 hours per month, at minimum wage.
Now, let's extrapolate more info from this:
Prior to receiving $1000 per month, the average income was $30,000 per annum , which is ~$14.42 an hour. This means that the average number of hours worked dropped less than an hour a month.
The reporting you are sharing is amazingly biased, with sensationalistic headlines determined to skew views against UBI.
Source for my numbers.
Yes, again, I read it. Why do you think that changes what they said?
The problem is not that people are working less, the problem is that this study show that funding UBI is almost impossible.
Funding for billionaire Andrew Yang's idea for UBI is almost impossible according to the article. Not a shock. Andrew Yang is a fool. Of course, much like this article is making a big deal out of a single study, it's pretending that Yang's idea is the only one. Congratulations on falling for it.
Life isn't about working and we've seen how rabid conservatives are to slash and burn disability and unemployment insurance.
This article strongly disagrees with the more scientific studies done here in Canada but even if it's true UBI is a good fucking idea.
There are quite a few studies with the opposite conclusion where there is no change in behavior. One thing that could explain this is a push up to a higher tax bracket for participants vs the control group. A portion of their income falls into a higher marginal tax which is less of an incentive to work. This also does not report on expenses which also might drop. Instead of having to take high interest loans, that extra $12k can avoid cong to take pay day loans to make rent or not pay 15% on a car loan. So while working Indonesia may drop $500/yr, equivalent expenses likely dropped even more.