this post was submitted on 18 Apr 2025
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They're saying that any claim to a right to self-defense doesn't apply here because Israel isn't defending itself. Precisely because it's the occupying force who's committing genocide.
If Israel WERE under attack, it would obviously have the right to defend itself. But that doesn't matter here.
Read the article. Even if it was truly under attack, it wouldn't have the right to engage in military action like, say, Ukraine is against Russia. It has the right to engage in counterinsurgency after guaranteeing the basic rights of the population of Gaza. Cutting off food, water or electricity is obviously a no-go, and generally they don't get to justify actions by "military advantages". The limits are a lot more stringent and they're not even pretending to meet them.
I have to admit, my mental capacity doesn't do long articles today. That's on me.
But yes, what they're doing is not defending themselves. Is what I said (I think). I feel like we're somehow talking past each other when we're saying the same thing.
"Russian troops on Occupied Crimea have the right to defend itself against Ukraine"
This is your argument.
It really, really isn't.
True the real comparison is "Nazi Germany has the right to defend itself against Poland".
Which is also not what I said. At all.
It can claim self defense against STATES. Bernie specifically calls Hamas a "terrorist organisation" which he says Israel has the right to defend itself against. This is a lie.
Francesca Albanese perfectly explains why Israel does not have the right to self defense in this video
Mate (genderneutral). We're saying the same thing. A right to self defence exists in principle but it does not apply in case of Israel's war on Palestine. The right to self defence is besides the point. We're in agreement.
Do you agree Bernie should stop saying it?
Not if in context it is obvious he's replying to the claim and saying how it doesn't apply. You cannot reply to a claim without repeating it in some form.
Good. This is about Bernie voluntarily saying it before he says Israel is not committing genocide.
Not directed at me but I'd like to add: Bernie is a politician trying to change minds. If he DIDN'T include that phrase or (worse) said they didn't have the right, so so so so so many Americans would completely dismiss anything he had to say. Granted, many still will because of the socialist and Democrat label. Politics are very divided here and he's trying to reach out to the other side.
He is on the side of the Palestinians. He has spoken out against this genocide many times. He wants to end the bloodshed.
Bernie is trying to change Liberals minds to support Israel and brainwash them into believe Israel has a right to self-defense. It appears to be working quite well.
Nobody wants to hear Hasbara disclaimers in front of speeches about Israel committing war crimes. Bernie needs to stop both-sidesing a genocide.
No you