this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2024
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Europe

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[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 99 points 4 months ago (3 children)

So we need the ECB to start QE in a big way to buy back government bonds. However the Saudis do not own too many.

We also have to go electric on transportation and that much much faster. Only a third of the EUs oil comes from the US and Norway. The rest comes from mainly dictatorships. Going green means supporting democracy. Staying on fossil fuels means supporting dictatorships.

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 53 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yep, even if you didn't care about the environmental aspect (which you should), not having to rely on dictatorships all over the place for your energy needs should be enough reason to transition away from fossil fuels.

[–] meldrik@lemmy.wtf 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I’m in agreement, but who produces the batteries? China…

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There are a lot of battery factories being built in the EU right now. Even if they come from China, it is a one time purchase and not a total dependence.

[–] meldrik@lemmy.wtf 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

True, but right now, a lot of the resources come from China. Solar is also something that is mainly from China. EU dropped that ball pretty fast.

[–] cows_are_underrated 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

This might change in the near future some time ago(not to sure how long exactly) I read an Article about a massive ore field of the resources needed for electrical components being discovered in ~~Denmark~~ Sweden.

[–] federalreverse 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Iirc: For certain materials like Lithium as well as Rare Earths, China basically has a monopoly on processing currently. E.g. with Lithium, Australia and Chile are major sources of the raw materials but virtually all of it is processed in China. Even if the raw materials come from the EU, there may be a major piece of the supply chain missing.

[–] cows_are_underrated 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Okay, that's fair. I'm not entirely sure but I know that Intel is building a processing plant in Germany. I don't know if they use raw materials, or they also rely on other manufacturers to produce stuff for them.

[–] federalreverse 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Chip plants are another matter yet again. They usually work with silicon wafers into which they a chip surface.

I don't know where Intel get their materials from either. The silicon processing industry is largely Chinese againβ€”I think Western and Japanese countries do have the appropriate factories and technology too though.

[–] cows_are_underrated 2 points 4 months ago

I just read, that TSMC also plans on creating a processing plant in Germany(near Dresden) so in the near future we might see chips made entirely in Europe.

[–] lud@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It was in Sweden. Denmark got jack shit when it comes to natural resources.

[–] cows_are_underrated 1 points 4 months ago

Thanks. My comment got corrected.

[–] makeasnek@lemmy.ml 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Glad my money isn't wrapped up in EUR. QE = inflation.

I'm all for going green, it's worth mentioning that having trade with dictatorships is a two-way street, we can also use that trade as leverage to hold them slightly accountable.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 6 points 4 months ago

In this case it gives the Saudis central bank money, which then leads to more money being removed over the coming years. Since the Saudis want to dump it, they have to sell it below market value. Due to that at intresst this means the ECB is moving money out of the monetary system. Hence this is deflationary. We actually saw that in the real world as well. QE meant low intresst rates. The intresst rates shot up as soon as QE was stopped.