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this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2024
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BMW should be liable for its drivers not using their turn signals.
Highways are responsible for car crashes.
Gun companies should be liable for people being shot with their guns
Gun insurance... Should be a thing... It's the single most compelling thing I have heard someone say about guns and wonder why it wasn't a thing... Insurance companies don't fuck around.
It is a thing. Lots of companies do it. Most prominent one I can think of off the top of my head is USAA. But there are others you'll find (I just hear their ads a lot on the radio)
As far as I know it's not required like it is to drive a car and it should be... You should be required to have insurance on each firearm that you own.
Nah it's not required anywhere I have lived.
Yeah that's what I mean...
This but unironically
Are many guns bought directly from the manufacturer?
If guns had a function besides murder, that would be a bad argument, but they don't. Defense is just the threat of murder.
Shooting at the range for fun, I suppose, but if people are actually serious about that they'd want to store their guns there because there's no need for them anywhere else.
The range you speak of is often just the woods, or even a backyard many places. Owned guns for about half my life (35), learned to shoot at 9, and I have never been to a paid range in my life.
That said I saw 2 people open carrying at Kroger just yesterday. Those people are ridiculous. Neither had any strap/cover over the top to prevent someone from easily taking it. I am pro more regulations, but they need to come from a place of understanding of they won't go anywhere but be turned into propaganda used to drive people into voting conservative. (Even when it's Trump who said to take the guns first and deal with the process later)
The relationship is different though, BMW is not a service provider.
A better analogy would be the phone company. Is it their job to monitor their customers conversation and determine the legality of what is being said?
That is a better analogy, but critically, phone lines are regulated as Title II common carrier utilities, but internet connections are not.
Given how Trump's previous FCC pick, Ajit Pai, killed net neutrality, I expect Trump's new pick, and his SCOTUS to pick whatever benefits Comcast the most.
Not blaming the ISP would give the net neutrality case too much credence. I think Comcast would rather be "required" to do deep packet inspection on all their users to look for "illegal behavior" (among other things).
Pres. Obama actually chose Pai. Orange man just chose him as chairman.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajit_Pai
That explains it...
The Title II difference is a very good point, all analogies fall apart at some point.
I agree the ISPs, like many other companies, will all be courting the new White House to get what they want.
BMW provides the service of being able to buy and use their product. The service of a gun manufacturer is providing you with a murder weapon (yes, it also can be used for sports). The service of a grocery store is providing you with a place to buy your groceries (and in the US also guns). Why is it different? Whether the product is a connection to the internet or a car, both companies provide a service for money.
As far as the car itself, BMW provides you with a product. This differs from a service where the provider can set in place rules that you need to abide by. If I want to chop the top off my new BMW and install ugly spoiler, there's nothing that BMW can do about that.
Nothing BMW can do about that, no. But they are also not held liable in case your car breaks in two because you have been cutting through the construction beams ensuring the regidity. Yet it is illegal to do so. But you did anyway, against the advice of BMW. Who is to blame?
There are rules you need to give your car a checkup every year. This is also advices by BMW. Otherwise you risk engine damage or something else. If you don't, the car company isn't liable. You are. BMW tells you not to put diesel in your benzine car, but if you do, BMW isn't liable. There are rules on how to use your car, provided by the car company. BMW even provides you with a lot of safety precautions in case you crash your car, so you will have a better chance of survival, but they do not promote crashing. Yet when you do, you are liable. Not BMW. Also, when you do not pay their subscription service, you won't get heated car seats etc. in their new cars. Yeah, BMW is switching to subscription plans to activate certain features already installed on your car. How is BMW not providing a "service"? When you do not repair and service your car at BMW you won't be able to get their road service plan. They advice you to do everything at a BMW dealership, but if you don't, BMW isn't liable.
When I have a shop and I have have rules for customers, like no smoking inside and no stealing, yet if someone breaks those rules, am I liable for allowing people in my store?
When an ISP is held liable for people using it for illegal business, ISP's just aren't able to exist anymore. They can't tell if someone downloads illegally when they use a VPN of when they sell drugs on silk road using Tor. Also, a VPN provider who doesn't log isn't able to tell either. Why not shut down the internet entirely because some people use it for bad?
Energy providers aren't held accountable for whenever someone uses its power for their illegal weed plantation right? When I leave open the water tap so there will be a flood and my downstairs neighbors get water damage, is the water company liable? They provided me with a service, they connected me to the water network. So they are responsible for how I use their service?
Americans always search for a scapegoat to blame for things. School shootings? Must be too many doors in schools. Can't be guns though, "I like guns". Bad economy? Must be China, can't be your own choices of course.
The movie Idiocracy was meant to be a comedy, not a tutorial.
No that's the NSA's job
No that's the NSA's hobby
I am sure BMW's TOS has a sentence in there somewhere that they are your daddy once you sign up and this is binding forever. Looks like that means they are a service provider for life.
Also.. isn't a subscription for heated seats means they provide a live service that we need to pay regularly to maintain?
All very true, BMW is a very scummy company lately.
My argument was that primarily, BMW is a manufacturer of a product. It would be a better analogy to a modem company being sued for the content that was transmitted through their device.
Side note, I think the feature unlock trend in cars is the worst possible thing.
I could see the Supreme Court rejecting this based on that idea... If you blame the manufacturer, that's going to open up all manner of gun lawsuits, ammunition lawsuits, etc.