this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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I was gonna title this "And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price you have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice" and then write "Stuck inside of America with the fascism blues again" here, but I'm not sure if that comes off like gloating and that's honestly the last thing I want to do this morning.

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[–] anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 154 points 19 hours ago (4 children)

Democrats are completely out of touch. them expecting voters putting other issues on top of them making ends meets and food on the table (like mocking Vance's egg prices ), all the while most polls showing the economy is the biggest concern with 38 % of all voters, is just simply delusional

And they have lost both the popular and electoral college vote. meaning the real problem here is them.

And don't get me started on the propaganda of Iowa's early voters polls showing a Kamala landslide just 2 days before election day. If you live in a left wing bubble and believe this shit, than this should be a hard smack back into reality.

Democrats are completely out of touch. them expecting voters putting other issues on top of them making ends meets and food on the table

the economy is literally the strongest it's been in a while, inflation rates are down, sure prices are still high but we're literally at the tail end of the fucking tunnel here.

God i wish people would stop voting on schizoprehnia economics, it's so stupid.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 23 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

So I guess people actually think Trump and Musk are going to help them with their egg prices?

[–] anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 19 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

Yes, you might find it stupid or illogical, but they (trump , elmo) are seen as smart and successful, and they lived under better circumstances in the last Trump term.

That's democracy, everyone has a say, whether their opinions or feelings are right or wrong. but instead of the democrats putting the work to meet these people they have chosen to belittle them. and that has cost them so far the Presidency and the Senate.

[–] skulblaka@sh.itjust.works 14 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

"they lived under better circumstances in the last Trump term"

They lived under fucking Covid in the last Trump term, when everyone was confined to their homes while supply lines disintegrated and the cost of food more than doubled, while ashes from rampant forest fires rained down from a blood red sky.

[–] Jiggle_Physics@lemmy.world 7 points 10 hours ago

That was only the end of it though. Through most of it, many aspects of the economy were better, for most people. He was just as complicit in why inflation, housing costs, etc. got so bad. However, do you think most people understand how the free money given, mostly under Biden, as a stimulus to the populace, had little effect on the inflation vs financial institutions drowning in oceans of free money, for 20 years? Do you think most people are even aware that was going on? Do you think most of them understand how private equity, and changes in its regulation, caused the housing cost crisis, and not supply being overwhelmed by the demand of immigrants?

I talked to someone I used to do underwriting, for things like mortgages, a few months back. He bought the immigrants buying up all the housing line. He just refused to believe private equity, something he definitely understands, is responsible, regardless of the fact that even those private equity institutions' data say they are at fault. It is much easier to say "housing unaffordable, close border" than to have to address the massive systemic changes that need to be made.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 7 points 13 hours ago

they lived under better circumstances in the last Trump term

I was disinfecting my groceries, and Trump was confiscating my PPE to send it somewhere else. I was getting Covid checks, which was nice, but it wasn't exactly the same as working. I couldn't leave the house for a while. I couldn't buy certain mechanical things without going on a 3-month wait list. I knew some people who died.

They think they lived under better circumstances in the last Trump term, because the media and people like you spreading a certain type of mental landscape and inviting them to inhabit it. But that's not actually what happened.

instead of the democrats putting the work to meet these people they have chosen to belittle them

If belittling the people could cost you support in America, Trump would be in prison right now.

Now if you ask whether the media told people that Democrats were belittling them, now that's a different story. That, to me, seems a lot more worth examining than it does to lecture the Democrats how important it is not to do some things they didn't do, that the media said they did.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 5 points 14 hours ago

Oh of course they think Trump and Musk are very smart. That doesn’t surprise me.

I’m surprised that they think Trump and Musk give a fuck about egg prices.

[–] djsoren19@yiffit.net 6 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

People think that Trump is going to change things, which is very hard to argue against. Yes, it won't be change for the better, but Harris was offering them 4 more years of the status quo that is currently hurting them.

[–] BlitzoTheOisSilent@lemmy.world 8 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

No one can argue Trump didn't get things done. He got a lot done, especially when you compare that to the perception people have of the Biden administration.

But I brought this up earlier: Trump may hate his followers, absolutely loathe them, but he still panders to them, even if it's fake promises. He accomplishes things they want done, and shows he can make progress, something the Democrats botch literally anytime they get any semblance of power. Trump makes his constituents feel heard.

The Democrats, just, don't. Everyone on Lemmy I'm sure has seen people offering criticism of Biden/Harris, and the response has been to immediately insult, scold, condescend, and shame the individual for not towing the party line. Your concerns, anxieties, hangups, none of that matters because fascism bad so stfu and vote and also fuck you anyway.

Trump's supporters ask him to abolish vaccines, and he seriously considers it.

Harris' supporters ask her to not support a genocide in Palestine, and she sends Bill Clinton to lecture them about why Israel has the right to do what they're doing.

It's a two-way street, the politicians just can't keep demanding our votes and ignoring our issues. And if that's what they're going to do, then congratulations, you've turned your voting base apathetic, and you deserve to lose to fascism.

[–] maniii@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

I'm not even American and I constantly see Lemmy users dunk on me for saying Biden/Harris are corpo dems who don't have policies most people wanted. That DNC and democrat politicians will be to blame if Drumpf wins.Not voters. Not independents. The Party and the Party Leaders.

[–] djsoren19@yiffit.net 6 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

I saw someone else on here put it perfectly, Democrats feel entitled to votes. They think that because they are logically the lesser evil, not voting for them is wrong. They don't even consider that American elections are not about logic, and are nearly entirely about emotions. They don't feel the need to make their constituents feel heard because they think their constituents are idiots if they don't vote for them. They don't even stop to realize that they are still an evil.

Seeing some of that entitlement in these threads has been, frankly, infuriating. Blue MAGA is the right term, they act identically to Trump supporters. It's everyone's fault but Harris'.

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 hour ago

It really does feel like that. "Vote for lesser evil" but do nothing to be less evil.

Blue MAGA was a joke that became reality. There's several people more angry at "I was entitled to more votes!" than Trump winning the votes and ending everything else.

[–] BlitzoTheOisSilent@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I've been saying the entitlement thing since the midterms! You're not entitled to someone's vote just because the other option is fascism.

And this entitlement has turned a large part of eligible voters apathetic. What difference does it make if you vote if you're always just voting for the lesser evil? If you're never actually represented in the people you're forced to choose between?

If you're going to be fucked either way, what difference does it make if the party in power is fascist or not?

And yep, plenty of people today telling me I'm the problem, despite the fact I voted for Harris. I just am also not naive enough to think the average American should be impressed by the lackluster campaign she just ran, and the Democrats botched on the whole.

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

I never voted for Trump each time I was able to vote. Not once did it ever cross my mind.

And somehow we're the evil people for wanting meaningful promises that improve the lives that fascism tempts. Never once voted for a Trump and since 2020, never voted for a Republican locally, I always skip the blanket primary when I can, since "I can promise you're not totally crazy" isn't a thing anymore.

When I ask "Why are we supporting these bad polices that Bush started?" I'm accused of being a useful idiot. When I ask "Why did we stop COVID protections and doing tests? Isn't that what Trump wanted?" I'm called a Russian bot. At some point I just learned:

Oh you don't care about kids in cages. You don't care about the 9/11 amount of Americans dying from COVID. You don't care about police killing innocent people. You don't want anything good, you pretend to for votes. You got jealous of how devoted and rabid Trump's fans are, and wanted a piece of that fascist pie.

I give up. Democrats don't want answers and polices, they just wanna be "Not the current evil guy."

[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 12 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

The economy is in an objectively better position than when the GOP had office. The fault does lie with the dems, but if the economy was a concern as 38% of people said, then they would have voted democrat. The fact is they went too far right, floundered on their support of a genocide and failed to speak bluntly on matters such as healthcare outside of abortion.

I think people say the economy when asked as a catch all when they dont know what to say.

[–] anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 68 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

Every one and their grandma knows that what people mean by the economy is their own financial well being and not the ability of billionaires and capitalist class on racking up more billions. the rest is pedantry.

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 23 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

The "economy" does not help people pay their bills. And the unit of measurement only says something about the whole. The fact that a small portion of the people actually profit from this better economy is the issue, the unit of measurement has no bearing on normal people.

And now, we will see what trade tarrifs will do, and gutting the administration and filling it with partisan players (loyalty > capability). And what gutting protection and health agencies will do.

Now that it's done I personally am morbidly curious what Trump, Vance, Kennedy and Musk can do to America in the next term (and possibly beyond). I really wonder if this will be as dark as it can be.. but the project 2025 ghouls are scary as fuck.

What is the over under on a national abortion ban in the US?

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 17 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/

Trump fucked it, Biden unfucked it better than any other country in the world after Covid, and Biden got the blame.

As is tradition. Universally. It's one of the few things in American politics that always happens in exactly the same way, with no real wiggle room depending on how you want to measure things or who you ask for the explanation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._economic_performance_by_presidential_party

Both rich people and working people do better under Democrats, and both rich people and working people do worse under Republicans. Always.

[–] BlemboTheThird@lemmy.ca 20 points 15 hours ago

Exact same happened to Obama and the 2008 recession. Getting blamed for shit that happened before the election even took place. But Democrats refuse to play the blame game, people got to spout the lies about things being cheaper when Trump was in office unchallenged, and the Dems refused to promote solid solutions to even the most basic of core issues like antitrust, price controls, higher minimum wage, or even fucking climate change.

And now, with so many fewer people turning out to vote for Dems, even Trump's lies about voter fraud will have been validated in the minds of the morons, who will attribute those low numbers to harsher rules stopping the fraud.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 3 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (3 children)

I was so confused because the voting pattern on this comment is so dramatically different than it was on the comments early on in this exact same discussion here, or in other posts where we've been discussing basically the exact same thing.

Sort the comments on this post by "old" and you'll see what I'm talking about. You won't see everyone claiming that the Democrats did nothing at all for the economy for the last 4 years. It won't be all the other way, either, but you'll see a healthy interplay between a couple of different main points of view. It won't be all one way.

I don't usually come to the big communities on lemmy.world for pretty much this exact same reason, so like I say, I was just confused. I looked back on some of my other comments in other communities, where there's actually a large-scale consensus that yesterday's tragedy was largely the fault of the people who were holding out voting for the Democrats because they hadn't done enough to fix everything up, including for example the economy from the last time the Republicans broke it all.

One thing that I suddenly realized is that some of those comments with that very-different-from-this consensus are on Beehaw, which while it still has representation on it from the socialists and anti-liberals, whatever you want to call it, has defederated from sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world because they were at the time too infested with troll accounts. And I used some of my magic powers to look at who's been voting for this comment with all these universal upvotes...

And lo, I was enlightened.

Edit: Another funny thing happened. The parent comment that this is in reply to was the top comment, 3 hours old, when I made this comment, which was the only reply at that time. Now, in just the last half hour, there are suddenly 7 other comments and replies competing for space at the top of the page, instead of it just being the parent comment and this one as a reply. A lot of those are some variety of "Democrats fucked it" comment.

My guess is that there will be a flurry of continued conversation, and then once things die down, it will all somehow coalesce into there being a few "Democrats fucked it" comments all the way up at the top of the page, with a whole bunch of upvotes, creating a narrative. I'm not sure. But that is how I would guess, if I had to guess.

Edit2: Called it. Look at the default-sorted comments now.

It doesn’t particularly matter. It’s over at this point. But it’s interesting to look at one particular microcosm on one particular platform of one thing that made it happen, I think.

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 2 points 8 hours ago

And I used some of my magic powers to look at who’s been voting for this comment with all these universal upvotes…

And lo, I was enlightened.

If you're aware of someone botting votes, I'm certain the admins of all instances would like to know, why don't you post the data?

[–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 8 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

One thing that I suddenly realized is that some of those comments with that very-different-from-this consensus are on Beehaw, which while it still has representation on it from the socialists and anti-liberals, whatever you want to call it, has defederated from sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world because they were at the time too infested with troll accounts. And I used some of my magic powers to look at who's been voting for *this* comment with all these universal upvotes...

I'm confused, is the implication that Beehaw users are upvoting the comments blaming the Drmocrats? How can they do that if they're defederated?

Actually I didn't really understand your entire comment...can you ELI5 or do I need to up my ADHD meds?

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

I’m saying that the comments under this post look manipulated, especially when compared with comments on Beehaw, which makes sense considering that beehaw excludes Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works which is where a ton of troll accounts come from.

[–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 4 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Thank you, this might be a sign that I do need to up my dosage 😭

Also, I agree with you.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 4 points 14 hours ago

Yeah. My initial presentation was unclear. Partly because it’s such a weird conspiratorial thing to believe that I kind of had to come at it sideways.

[–] anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 8 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

largely the fault of the people who were holding out voting for the Democrats because they hadn’t done enough to fix everything up,

I don't know how someone can blame voters for advancing their interests if their finances are in the red. and are holding their vote in protest of the democrats.

I don't know how are the discussions on beehaw but over the rest of lemmy, it feels exactly the same as on reddit: well off Americans blaming the struggling other half for turning their backs on the Democrats, it isn't Just Harris who didn't deliver, it is the whole fucking party. Liberals won't understand the struggle of people living paycheck to paycheck. and how they are not entitled to their vote if they let the neo-Liberal system fuck with the struggling class.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 5 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/

Like I said: Trump fucked it, Biden unfucked it starting in January 2021 and got it under control. And, because the media laps up a good narrative like no other, Biden got the blame for what Trump did, when the US recovered better from Covid inflation than pretty much every other country in the world.

If you're struggling now, and "holding your vote in protest of the Democrats," then I withdraw a little bit of my sympathy. You're going to get it right up the ass very hard in the next few years, if you did that, and although it won't be completely your fault you will have helped make it happen.

[–] anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 0 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

The economic struggle and inflation only fell on people under Biden's presidency and vastly after Ukraine war. what people live under is what matters. not that a trump presidency will alleviate this. but you shouldn't expect people to reelect the same team that choose to extend a war in Ukraine and send 100 billion to Ukraine while their own are struggling.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat -2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

A haaaaaa

Hey, what do you think of Alexei Navalny?

[–] anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 3 points 15 hours ago

Don't care really! I don't believe in heroism. He didn't deserve to Die in a prison though.