Ye Power Trippin' Bastards

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This is a community in the spirit of "Am I The Asshole" where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.

Sometimes one just wants to be able to challenge the arguments some mod made and this could be the place for that.

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A story as old as federated social media, in 3 parts (slrpnk.net)

submitted 3 weeks ago by PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat to c/yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com

211 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Mod of !anarchism@slrpnk.net posts a great Greta Thunberg quote, but then tries to use it to justify not voting in the upcoming US election
Multiple people point out that’s very clearly not what she meant
Removed by mod Removed by mod Removed by mod Removed by mod

Using your mod powers to decide who is allowed and not allowed to speak is not very anarchist of you, @mambabasa@slrpnk.net

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[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I don’t agree that it glosses over it. She says almost immediately:

It’s probably impossible to overestimate the consequences this specific election will have for the world and for the future of humanity.

and

There is no doubt that one of the candidates — Trump — is way more dangerous than the other.

Pretty strong language. If anything I think she might actually be overstating its significance, though obviously this depends on our predictions of future events which are ultimately unknowable. So I won’t disagree with her assessment even though I don’t completely share it.

But that’s just not the main point of the post. Most people in liberal democracies consider it their civic duty to vote. But they do not consider it their civic duty to engage in direct actions that reduce the harms of violent state actions or build support for marginalized people in their communities. This is a very important and valid critique of our collective political consciousness.

Furthermore, pointing out that both candidates support extremely harmful policy positions, particularly on Palestinian issues but also in terms of fossil fuel extraction, while acknowledging that one is worse, is not the same as “BOTH SIDES BAD”. We need to be able to understand and confront the crimes of the system in order to change it. I am not going to pretend that actively supporting ethnic cleansing is OK because Trump is worse. I think that’s a dangerous way to engage with democracy. It’s exactly the type of thinking that keeps moderate Trump supporters in line.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

Pretty strong language. If anything I think she might actually be overstating its significance, though obviously this depends on our predictions of future events which are ultimately unknowable. So I won’t disagree with her assessment even though I don’t completely share it.

All language is couched in context. "Election important" and "Trump bad" are mealy-mouthed condemnations that can be read without implication of support for the only practical anti-fascist candidate. If Trump wins, it'll be a "q.q I warned you q.q"; if Harris wins, it'll be "I never said to vote for her, she's just Another Fascist Pig." It's intentionally ambiguous language that almost immediately departs to elaborate on all the reasons Harris in particular is guilty and how neither side will change anything.

Call me a cynic, but I fought with this kind of argument all the goddamn time in college.

But that’s just not the main point of the post. Most people in liberal democracies consider it their civic duty to vote. But they do not consider it their civic duty to engage in direct actions that reduce the harms of violent state actions or build support for marginalized people in their communities. This is a very important and valid critique of our collective political consciousness.

I agree.

Furthermore, pointing out that both candidates support extremely harmful policy positions, particularly on Palestinian issues but also in terms of fossil fuel extraction, while acknowledging that one is worse, is not the same as “BOTH SIDES BAD”. We need to be able to understand and confront the crimes of the system in order to change it. I am not going to pretend that actively supporting ethnic cleansing is OK because Trump is worse. I think that’s a dangerous way to engage with democracy. It’s exactly the type of thinking that keeps moderate Trump supporters in line.

There's no need to pretend that ethnic cleansing is okay, or that supporting it is okay, or even that failing to oppose it is okay - but there is a need to be clear in opposition to literal fascism, and playing with cheap rhetoric for ambiguity to avoid responsibility for taking a serious position is not something that is in any way respectable. Something (ironically?) that Harris does on the issue of Palestinian genocide.