this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2024
41 points (91.8% liked)
Europe
1576 readers
537 users here now
News and information from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
(This list may get expanded when necessary.)
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.
founded 5 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
„Sorry guys, we need to temporarily suspend Geneva convention and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union”.
Those guys were hailed as ones to bring democracy and rule of law after PiS ran it into the ground. They were called „centre-left” by almost all western media. Ahahahaha.
It's not a Geneva Convention. Separate treaty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees
I think that there's some clause that permits non-use of the treaty. I was reading that treaty text back during the European migrant crisis a bunch.
kagis
https://www.unhcr.org/sites/default/files/legacy-pdf/3b66c2aa10.pdf
Yeah, Article 9:
But that's supposed to be specific to people on a case-bye-case basis person, not a general suspension. Hmm.
The EU's Schengen Treaty has a clause that permits temporary general suspension of the Schengen Area freedom of movement, and a bunch of EU members used that, but I don't think that there is an analog to that in the Refugee Convention.
looks further
WP does say that there aren't really any consequences to violating the treaty, and that countries have done so in the past.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees
The EU apparently mandates member state conformance in this treaty. However, given the unpopularity of refugee immigration and the negative political consequences for political parties, I'm not sure how much practical ability Brussels has to impose penalties on member states. Like, we already had the attempt to invoke Article 9 (different article 9 from the one above, the one to strip European Union members of their political powers) during the European migrant crisis.
EDIT: Oh, I bet I know what Poland is gonna do. They're not gonna actually suspend the treaty, whatever they're calling it. They aren't gonna use Article 9 (of the Refugee Treaty). They're gonna use Article 31.
This already came up before during the European migrant crisis. If someone comes to your country but not directly, then you're free to penalize them for illegal entry. Basically, no refugees are coming directly to Poland. The EU tried plugging this hole with the Dublin Regulation. It didn't work all that well.
EDIT2: Apparently in 2026, the Dublin Regulation is supposed to be replaced with this. Could alter the picture legally. Dunno if it has any mechanism for suspension, as the Schengen Treaty did, or not.
EDIT3: Ah. You can buy your way out of conformance, for one, under the 2026 replacement:
Yeah, most international treaties on human rights are toothless because there is no mechanism for enforcing them. There will be no penalties from Brussels because EPP rules EU and KO (main ruling coalition party) is part of EPP, simple as that.
Wait, isn't that exactly why laws are enforced by courts and not parliaments?
Yes and no. As an example, there’s an EU court ordering Poland to legalise same-sex marriage yet the centre-left government can’t even get it through the lower house of the parliament. Court can’t do much other than set some administrative fees that are so low you can ignore them. There could be some pressure applied by cutting EU funds etc but somehow it doesn’t happen to Poland. Curious, no?
Yeah, my country (czechia) is buying its way out and i think quite a few other CEE countries are as well.