Like, the elected politicians and bureaucracy can't be trusted enough to regulate industry under capitalism so we'll centralize things and then trust them to regulate industry under Communism?

If that's your understanding of Communism, then you need to read The State and Revolution. Quite a lot of Communist theory is concerned with eliminating the concept of beauracracy.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

When have attempts to reduce bureaucracy not yielded even more bureaucracy ? This isn't a state V corporation issue either, bureaucracy thrives in both these places.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

AES states.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Sahel states ?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Actually Existing Socialist States.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Such as ?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Throughout history? The USSR, Cuba, PRC, Vietnam, Laos, etc.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I don't know about Vietnam and Laos, but the three firsts ones are referred to as "regimes that controls all aspects of life". I mean, how is that even possible without extensive bureaucracy ? Are you interpreting "bureaucracy" in some unusual or private meaning of the word ? Like, are the "bureaucrats" just considered state officials themselves to pretend they aren't really a bureaucracy ?

"Bureaucracy is the administrative system governing any large institution, whether publicly owned or privately owned."

I mean, either they stay out of the lives of the people or they make all those decisions themselves or they hire a large class of bureaucrats to take these decisions for them. AI hasn't been around long enough to make it the bureaucracy.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

don't know about Vietnam and Laos, but the three firsts ones are referred to as "regimes that controls all aspects of life".

By who? You just left this hanging, unsupported.

I mean, how is that even possible without extensive bureaucracy? Are you interpreting "bureaucracy" in some unusual or private meaning of the word?

First of all, I reject the original premise that they control all aspects of life. Second of all, beauracracy is not the same as management, it's a group of career politicians enjoying the spoils of their own positions above everyone else. Lenin warns against it in The State and Revolution.

I mean, either they stay out of the lives of the people or they make all those decisions themselves or they hire a large class of bureaucrats to take these decisions for them. AI hasn't been around long enough to make it the bureaucracy.

You should look into the Democratic structures of AES states. Here's a cool infographic about how the USSR worked:

[–] Lauchs@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

In theory, democracy produces satisfactory outcomes...

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 months ago

Democracy does produce satisfactory outcomes, what changes reality is the structure of said democracy. Very few systems are direct democracies, and direct democracies themselves are flawed even in theory.

You should read the text.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 months ago

Of course bourgeois democracy doesn’t produce satisfactory outcomes for the working class. It doesn’t represent the will of the working class, but rather that of the capitalist class.