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They were never pro-life. They were never even pro-birth. They've never argued for anything like free pre-natal care. If something is wrong with your baby and you and your baby are going to die, that's god's will, so don't you dare get an abortion.
They are not pro-anything. They're anti-abortion. That's as far as it goes whether they admit it or not.
they're not even anti-abortion. they're just anti-woman.
i know, but it's what they claim to be
I know. I just don't think they should be allowed to get away with calling themselves that unchallenged beyond the "and you call yourselves pro-life?" I feel the need to point out that they literally could not give less of a shit whether or not any given fetus lives or dies as long as medical intervention isn't required for the latter.
fair enough
On the one hand, I absolutely think it's worth calling out. On the other hand, they'll often be very quick to try and turn it around on you, calling anyone pro-choice pro-death or saying they "want to kill babies".
Obviously those aren't quite the same thing, but they see it as the same and I just wish there was a way to bridge that gap and have everyone listen to each other...
At which point, I tell them that it's not about the fetus, it's about the fact that people have a fundamental right to their own bodies and no one should be allowed to use their body without their consent. Just like we have people consent to organ donation.
If they want fetuses to live, great. Start working on artificial womb technology. They don't seem interested.
Again, I agree with you. I just see the danger of refusing to acknowledge how a group conceptualizes their own position, even if they're being deliberately blind to other factors.
And I wish people could spend more effort trying to understand each other's perspectives, because otherwise how does it ever change?
I'm only barely talking about pro-life/anti-choice or pro-choice/pro-death here, too. The same kind of thinking and focusing on aspects the other person isn't addressing is everywhere in discourse these days. And a lot of them are very close to home for me and I guess I want them to be able to consider my perspective. But they won't, because they think of the world this way, so they see me as a problem and a problem-causer just by being me.
Any way... Rant over I guess
How does it ever change? The 70+% of people that disagree show up to vote. I was raised by forced birthers and have been to family therapy with them to try to talk with a neutral third party. The therapist gave us all a blanket statement that we'll never change each other's minds. So, fine. My brother and I just have to cancel out their votes and get more people to tip the scales.
Every state that's been able to vote on it has upheld protections for abortion. More are on the ballot for November. Check your state and be ready to show up.
I don't know. But I'm going to keep trying.
I'm definitely going to vote, and everyone willing to listen should hear why, like you said.
But I'm also going to keep talking and listening to the people I disagree with, and nuts to your therapist.
I call them forced-birth, which sums up their position well. They care nothing for the woman having the child and care nothing for the child after it's born. It's all about forcing that birth by whatever means... then walking away.
But they don't even care if there's a birth. If the fetus dies inside the mother and then the mother dies- god's will.