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Survey finds that 60 firms are responsible for half of world’s plastic pollution
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
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I mean, pure convenience really is at the heart of it. The worst thing to happen to bottled water companies was pipes and if Nestle or Ozarka could ripe out everyone's plumbing they'd do it in a heartbeat.
Its very cool to have a shop that's plastic free in your little town, but I'll be damned if I can find an equivalent in America's Third Biggest City of Houston, TX. At least, not one that's 30 minutes drive.
At some level, you have to concede its the structure and not the people. I don't think anyone really wants to be hauling 40 lbs of trash to the curb every week. But when we're inundated with it, avoiding waste becomes a job in and of itself.
It shouldn't have to be a struggle to avoid generating trash.
I'm not defending these companies, just pointing out that using the companies as an excuse to change nothing about your own habits makes no sense.
Right in the center of Houston. Although having lived in Houston for a number of years, I understand that you could still easily live a half hour from here. But if you work in downtown, it's always the option to grab it on your way home.
But, also, keep in mind that you are right now trying to make excuses rather than look for solutions. I'm not saying you have to shop at one of these places, I offered my experience to demonstrate how, even when it's available, people would still rather buy the convenient disposable crap.
It's both. This is my point. Too many people don't want to put in any effort to make things better, they just want to point at corporations and say "not my problem." It's how they deal with the cognitive dissonance of claiming to care about this issue, but at the same time not doing anything about it. "Well, what can I do?" A lot. You can do a lot. If you frequent that store in Houston, and encourage more people to, they can open up other locations make it even more convenient for more people. We all have to shift our behaviors to make it work.
Also agreed. However, again, not an excuse to change none of your own behaviors. You can both try to do better and push for better policy.
Which is 30 minutes drive from anyone outside 610.
That's true, assuming traffic in that area isn't miserable. There's also a WholeFoods in the Galleria Area that has had similiar services, but I don't even try to get near it during rush hour, because its pure gridlock.
I don't think that's true. What I have found to be the case is that independent action is expensive and time-consuming. You need some kind of business model to make it work, and that quickly turns "community effort" into "full-time job". And if you've already got a full-time job, you're not going to be able to afford to sidestep all the businesses on every corner offering you the easy way out.
At some level, it absolutely is a corporate problem. Because even if you do succeed at a local level, you're working in the scale of gallons while they're working in the scale of mega-barrels. Systematic problems require systematic solutions. It can't just be half a dozen people on one street in Houston changing where they shop.
Okay, but then when do you have time to do anything else?
No one is denying it is a corporate problem too, they have the lions share of it; the only one denying responsibility here is you.
And you are (implicitly) arguing that you can't put any effort in, because it's either do nothing or it's a full time job. This is nonsense. I go to this store once, maybe twice a month. But the latter only because it's convenient. It's not even remotely a full time job.
But also no one is saying you have to do everything at once. I even noted i'm still very much a work in progress.
The important thing is to try, rather than just throw your hands up and claim you have no responsibility.
Oh good. Then there's no problem. My output is infinitesimal on a global scale.
I was worried for a minute, but I guess since everyone else is taking this problem seriously, it should be fixed shortly.
An individual endlessly forced to attempt an exhausting futile endeavor is a punishment in Greek Mythology.
But on Lemmy, its supposed to be a panacea.
Even the single most offending business can claim only a small percent of the total damage. Does that absolve them? We both agree the answer is "no."
None of this was said nor implied. I've been talking about how we are all responsible, and you've been trying to justify taking no individual steps to make things better.
I disagree that it's futile, as I've already mentioned that the more people do it, the more businesses will cater to that. And if every individual makes the change, it would be massive.
Your argument is failing which is why you have to put words into my mouth. I think you're beginning to realize this. I just hope it turns into actually taking responsibility for what you can control: your own actions.
When industries are cartelized, that's less true. There's a real knock-on effect between firms, such that a procedure change in a single heavyweight forces others to follow suite or divide off into niches. Classic example of this was Exxon's adoption of Oracle database suite. Once they got on board, all their clients and partners were dragged along for the ride.
Another great example is the provisions of the Inflation Reduction Act that throw billions into grid overhauls that prioritize green energy. Wind/Solar dipping under coal has set off a massive construction frenzy, particularly in Sunbelt states like Arizona and Texas. You can claim no single coal plant is responsible for climate change. But when a MWh of power from wind gets under coal, it doesn't matter, because every coal plant sees a reduction in business and every wind farm sees a surge in consumption.
All that to say, these aren't individual problems. They are systemic. And they can only be solved systemically.
That's simply not true. If everyone on my block were to throw themselves off their roofs tomorrow and reduce consumption to a flat zero, climate change would continue apace. If the senior staff at these 60 corporate plants did the same, and there was suddenly a vacuum of leadership/lobbying going into the opposition to climate change reforms, the story would be entirely different.
We are not all responsible. Not in a privatized for-profit corporate hierarchy of an economy.
Your fallacy is the Tinkerbell Effect
Despite me very explicitly and clearly saying that companies have the lions share of the responsibility, you claimed my argument, that we all have some responsibility and we should change our individual actions, was claiming it's a "panacea." You were the one who made up something that wasn't there.
I also know that my local shop is moving into a bigger space and has talked about possibly even opening a second shop. I've also turned friends into their products and they still shop there. Just just like companies can spread their influence by changing, so can individuals. So your claim that it's "infinitesimal" starts to fall apart if you actually apply your own logic to yourself.
You need to convince yourself that your actions have no affect, because it's the only way to say you care while doing nothing. It's how you cope with that cognitive dissonance: pretend it isn't there.
You're really recognizing the fault of your own position here, it's just the opposite of the Tinkerbell effect, where if you pretend it isn't there, it's not.
Uh huh.
Damn this accumulated body of evidence and understanding of causality. If only I had been blessed with sweet ignorance and endless optimism.
And you're trying to argue that i didn't say this.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people will turn to outright lying in order to avoid admitting that they might be wrong.
Nah, just ignorance and endless dishonesty.
I'm pointing to all the instances in which you contradict yourself.
And that's been the name of this game since forever. The bait and switch of "Everyone needs to pitch in!" and "Its all on your shoulders, we can't afford to do anything more".
Businesses screaming "Stop me before I kill again!" and blaming everyone else for the new pile of bodies.
None of those contradicts that. Is this going to be the pattern? Just throwing dishonesty upon lies instead of just admitting you were wrong?
No one here is baiting and switching anything. This is a desperate strawman.
This is funny. Using this context, your argument is "well businesses kill a lot more people than I do, so the few bodies i'm racking up I'm not responsible for." It's you blaming businesses for the bodies you're needlessly piling up.
Im pointing at all of our piles and saying "look, you can actually make an effort to decrease yours while we fight to decrease theirs." You're arguing that your pile does not count because it's small.
This has no impact on a problem at the scale of industry.
If we were talking about picking up litter at the park, sure. But when we're discussing the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, there is no solution that isn't systematic.
It functionally does not. I can't pollute at the scale necessary for anyone to notice, individually.
And zeroing my pollution out does nothing to mitigate the problem.
Even at the scale of city blocks - hundreds of people - there's no impact.
The only solution is systematic.
You're making my argument for me.
You're effectively arguing that there is no point in picking up your litter at the park because there is a pacific garbage patch...and man the garbage can is all the way on the other side! It's like a full time job to throw away my litter! Me throwing away my litter is so tiny in the grand scheme of things, so it's not my fault if I just toss it on the ground.
We both agree major changes need to happen. But every time you leave your litter out, you're contributing to the problem as well and shoulder some responsibility. It's not like throwing out your litter precludes you from pushing for systemic changes. It's just something you can do, right now, to minimize your contribution to it.
And buying from places like I suggest is even more useful because it helps them thrive and spread. While I don't see how throwing away your litter really helps it spread.
I said the exact opposite
No you're main argument is effectively arguing that. Or I should say it's the equivalent argument.
That strawman is taking one hell of a beating.
It's not a strawman, it's an analogy; I'm not saying this is the argument you are making, but the equivalent of the argument you are making.
Although, I have to laugh at the fact that you claimed I said the exact opposite of what I literally and explicitly stated, and now are all up in arms over an analogy as a "strawman." lol
When you reverse an argument and claim it is equivalent, you are either extremely illogical or dishonest.
Perhaps you're experiencing some kind of mania.