this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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This is a bit of a rant, but please try to stick with me through the whole thing

So recently OSRS (Old School Runescape) has joined a list of games that have replaced "Male or Female" with "Body Type A or Body Type B" with you selecting your pronouns secondary.

And it made me furious, but I had to sit down and ask why such a small meaningless thing that I only see during the character creator pisses me off. After all, isn't this giving a seat at the table for Gender Non-Conforming/Non-Binary individuals?

So I tried thinking about this issue from the perspective of a Non-Binary individual. See I myself am female (Transgender MTF for what it's worth), so the only thing I'm ever going to pick is the female option unless I'm doing a challenge run where I try to roleplay Guybrush Threepywood (Mighty Pirate!) while playing Fallout 3...

That's when I realized why I absolutely hate Body Type A/Body Type B

This is not a solution to a problem, this is highlighting the issue.

As a woman, I look at "Body Type A or Body Type B" and think "Well, I'm a woman, not a Body Type B, and isn't it kinda misogynistic that the secondary option is the female one? Like A+ for Men, B- for Women?"

As someone is very much not cisgender, I look at it and go "Well, isn't every FTM going to pick Body Type A with male pronouns while MTFs like myself go with Body Type B with female pronouns? Who outside of a Far Right Troll trying and failing to be funny is gonna pick the buff bearded dude and select the she/her pronouns?"

It was only when I went "Let's pretend I don't exist in a male/female binary and see how I feel about it." that I realized why I absolutely DESPISE Body Type A/Body Type B

Because when I look at it from that angle, I realize that if I am a non-binary individual, my options are to look like an overly buff dude but occasionally NPCs will refer to me as a They/Them, or like an overly curvy chick who again sometimes gets called They/Them....

That's when I realized why Body Type A/Body Type B doesn't do it for me.

Games that do this aren't being progressive or inclusive, they're changing the color of the cup that my drink comes in and pretending it's an entirely new beverage.

I realized that if the choices in Body Type were something like

A - Buff Dude

B - Slim Dude

C - Fat Dude

D - Skinny Androgynous Individual who doesn't need a bra/binder

E - Fat Androgynous Individual who doesn't need a bra/binder

F - Skinny Androgynous Individual who requires bra/binder

G - Fat Androgynous Individual who requires bra/binder

I - Curvy Chick

J - Buff Chick

K - Fat Chick

L - Slim Chick

Maybe have also an option for a big buff masculine dude who has big tits, because that's just how he rolls, I dunno just thinking aloud here....

My point is that gaming could abandon "A/B" in favor of something more like an actual spectrum of Height, Weight, and Gender Presentation instead of just awkwardly renaming the binary? I wouldn't get so up in arms about gender replacing body type.

I don't know what more I have to say on this. I guess it's just a revelation I had about something in gaming that bothers me..

So, wider gaming community. What do you think? Am I onto something or is this all crazy talk?

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[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 22 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

Games should just get rid of character creators. Just play the damn game with whoever the main character is and learn to empathise with someone other than yourself.

[–] UngodlyAudrey@beehaw.org 23 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Then we'd be going back to having the vast majority of games having a cis male protagonist. No thanks. I don't mind playing as them from time to time, but I want a choice, especially if the main character is one of those blank slate types.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'm not advocating for that either and I don't necessarily they think they would these days. Ubisoft is steadfastly ignoring the dumbasses around the black male / Asian female leads for AC, no matter how loud they whine.

[–] luciole@beehaw.org 7 points 2 months ago

Aloy from Horizon Zero Dawn made me realize I vibe so well playing as a woman. If I had had the choice I probably would have picked the masculine option since that's my gender. I'm glad that game forced my hand, now when I have a choice I give it a real thought.

[–] UngodlyAudrey@beehaw.org 3 points 2 months ago

Yeah, hopefully the inclusiveness trend continues.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 2 points 2 months ago

Games could have multiple protagonists with different bodies, genders, personalities, etc... something like Overwatch did have that, you could even play as a hamster or a robot!

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

keep the character creators, but only let the player use a randomizer button and a silliness slider.

[–] SteevyT@beehaw.org 3 points 2 months ago

I don't know whether we would have ever gotten the absolute brilliance that is Turg if proper customization weren't available.

[–] BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago

sea of thieves style

[–] asexualchangeling@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 months ago

I see the point of character creators, but games shouldn't be afraid to do what's best for them, for some games character creators are basically the only way that makes sense, but also yeah I'd like to see more games that didn't have them at all

[–] P4ulin_Kbana@lemmy.eco.br 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This reminds me of that "vessel creator" troll from Deltarune

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

See, I don't really care that the player is referred to as "They/Them" in Deltarune, because it's established that you are playing as Kris and those are their pronouns.

(and in Undertale, the monsters simply had no idea what Frisk's gender was due to an unfamiliarity with humans so it's kept intentionally vague.. with they/them simply being the most gender neutral thing to call them and the fanbase having their own headcanons on what Frisk actually is. Personally my head canon is Frisk is male and Chara is female, which seemed to be the most common interpretation in the fanbase back then... my headcanon for Kris is that they're intersex with they/them pronouns as I see them as being representative of both Frisk and Chara, but however you see the situation is just as valid unless the creator comes out and says "No it's this specific way, everything else is wrong!" and to my knowledge Toby Fox has not done that)

Sidenote: First non-binary person I ever met used ey/eir pronouns, this was so long ago that ey called eirself "Genderless" instead of Non-Binary as the latter wasn't a word. Ey was femme presenting, but very much not female. Sadly we've drifted apart and wherever ey is I wish eir well.

I always wished ey/eir had caught on instead of "singular they", because personally I thought "ey" sounded cooler and was more straightforward than "singular they". But hey I'm not non-binary myself so it's not really any of my business.

On a similar note, I used to see shi/hir pronouns more often than I do now as well, though that was more for intersex individuals than non-binary. I still see some usage of shi/hir, though the people I see with those pronouns tend to self-identify as "hermaphrodite", a phrase that is considered highly insulting by most. I guess what I'm saying here is that there are all kinds and it's probably best not to make assumptions or assume gender to be a one-size fits all phenomenon.

[–] P4ulin_Kbana@lemmy.eco.br 4 points 2 months ago

I would like to thank you for taking your time to write this response. For some reason, I was feeling blue. Seeing the lenght of your comment made me feel heard and really happy. Thank you for sharing this with me, may you have a wonderful day/night!

[–] theVerdantOne@beehaw.org 5 points 2 months ago

But what about games that require you to distinguish yourself from other real-life players as in all massively multiplayer games?

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago

I'm actually all for this as well, unless the game is some open-ended roleplaying experience just give me a character to play as and design the game around who this person is (I think the original Dead Rising did a good job of this with Frank West, the remake.. well unless previews are from an earlier build than what we're getting in September not so much)

And I mean a REAL open-ended roleplaying experience, not something like Fallout 4 that was blatantly designed for me to play as Nate, a lawful good heterosexual cisgender male military vet with predefined goals.... with gay romance options and the ability to play as his wife Nora existing solely to give the illusion of choice... An Illusion I still appreciate because when I play I always wind up being Nora with Curie as my wifey.

(I feel like FO4 would be far less divisive if it was a spinoff about Nate's journey rather than a sequel to a series that is known for player agency, and even then the Brotherhood of Steel suddenly being a bunch of Nazis is still stupid as hell)