Collapse

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This is the place for discussing the potential collapse of modern civilization and the environment.

Collapse, in this context, refers to the significant loss of an established level or complexity towards a much simpler state. It can occur differently within many areas, orderly or chaotically, and be willing or unwilling. It does not necessarily imply human extinction or a singular, global event. Although, the longer the duration, the more it resembles a ‘decline’ instead of collapse.

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Solar Panels: Another Exercise in Magical Thinking (2023) (thehonestsorcerer.substack.com)

submitted 4 weeks ago by eleitl@lemm.ee to c/collapse@lemm.ee

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[–] Umbrias@beehaw.org 1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (3 children)

"you're still stuck on eroei

you need to describes the initial steps of eroei"

and dont geteme wrong, there are other things to consider than eroei, but solar is generally worth it in those contexts as well. things like mining issues, ecosystem damage, carbon costs, etc. of course those were not what were being looked at in the article, just someone's first attempt at eroei from first principles without understanding what they were critiquing.

[–] eleitl@lemm.ee 1 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

As a fossil extender solar PV and wind is definitely worth it. It is empirically possible to power some sort of society indefinitely with renewable power alone, like for instance Japan during the Edo period, or to do slightly better.

Just not this sort of society. And almost nobody is ready to discuss what that implies.

[–] Umbrias@beehaw.org 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

🙄

[–] eleitl@lemm.ee 1 points 4 weeks ago

We don't seem to be communicating well.