609
TSMC Arizona struggles to overcome vast differences between Taiwanese and US work culture
(www.tomshardware.com)
this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2024
609 points (99.4% liked)
Technology
59673 readers
3175 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I work in a fab and it's pretty industry standard to run 12 hr shifts for operators (3 on 4 off then 4 on 3 off) and if your in engineering or IT be ready to be on call cause they don't want a 20-100 million+ machine down any longer then absolutely necessary.
I also work in a fab. We have the 3-4-4-3 rotating shift pattern just like everyone else, but we don't treat our people like cattle, unlike TSMC. We also tend to slightly overstaff, versus TSMC that understaffs and drives their people harder to make up for the difference.
I don't know how you can understaff a fab like there is either an operator at the tool or there isn't...not saying your wrong you very well could be 100% correct but it doesn't make sense in this environment like you can't run a process faster if its a 10 week run to get that lot out you need a certain number of people to run tools during that process...again I'm just talking from what I see and I'm only in IT so...
Production is pretty easy to understaff. It's not like an operator stands at the tool the entire time - much of the job is moving wafer cassettes from one tool to another and basically hitting "go", then the tool runs its process in its own. Other tasks involve restocking depleted chemicals and retrieving reticles, but the main thrust of the production job type is moving things from one place to another so the tools can do their job.
Given it's a 12.5 hour shift in a bunny suit that involves a lot of standing and walking, it's important that employees have a certain amount of downtime during their shift, just a few minutes here and there outside of breaks and lunches where they can relax. If you run too lean, staff has to constantly scurry from tool to tool and they'll quickly burn out. This is the TSMC way.
There's also a lot more to a fab than its production staff. Engineers, facilities, waste water treatment, chemical handling, IT, EHS, and various administrative roles are all very easy to understaff since many positions are salaried and TSMC loves that unpaid overtime. The results roll downhill to production staff not getting the support they need, further compounding the pressure they feel.
Those are all very good points and guess what I just got called into work funnily enough!
Boooo weekend work. Sorry to hear it but good luck escaping.
There's also just completely failing to account for callouts in planning, which I saw a lot of when I was a manufacturing supervisor. Upper management breathes down operations' neck to only have people doing the most high cost function they're being paid for as much of the time as possible. If someone has been trained to run a line, they don't want to see them doing 5S upkeep or sweeping, they want them running that line the whole shift. Unfortunately, this extends from the most senior positions down to the new hires, so they schedule the fewest people for each role they possibly could safely operate with when they come up with their production plan. Quite predictably, with humans not being robots, this throws the whole thing into chaos the moment one person calls out. Upper management gets into a tizzy about schedule attainment numbers while demanding to know how this could possibly happen, only to sit down with planning and pull the same bullshit with the following week's schedule.
If you have a couple of redundancies in your scheduling, you can just postpone lower priority tasks and roll with it. If everyone shows up, you can have people work on stuff like training, preventative maintenance, house keeping, and a million other things.
For reasons apparently only getting an MBA will lower your IQ enough to seem reasonable, upper management in manufacturing loves doing those skeleton crews where a single absence means mandatory OT and 6-7 dry work weeks to try and salvage what can be of the production schedule, while demanding to know why we struggle to get and maintain staff for these roles.
It's just greed and stupidity, plain and simple. Your points are spot on and are amongst the many reasons I suggest people in our field should avoid TSMC. I'd take a job at Intel over TSMC and that's saying a lot
If you dint have more people than are necessary to run the business you're understaffed. People get sick, have a flat tire, go on vacation, retire, and unexpectedly die.
If you can't operate at 100% capacity while down a few employees then you're guaranteed to underperform.
*you're
Hire more to work regular 8h shifts.
Honestly once you get used to 12 hour shifts you come to prefer them. You have half the year off before you factor in vacation and sick leave. There is built in overtime every day. The time doesn't feel much longer than an 8 hour day.
12 hour night shift was rough. The work hours weren't bad but it was too hard to get on regular hours on my days off.
My friend, I can't even manage an eight hour day without extreme burnout. I know I'm not necessarily in the majority there, but hearing you say 12 could ever possibly be comfortable just sounds like nonsense to me
I'm burnt out and don't want to do fun stuff anyway after 8, why not do 12 and have entire extra days of not burning myself out. I miss my 12 hour 3x weekly nights schedule, I'd go back to it in a heartbeat.
I would stop going to that job. This would not have be a choice that I made, it is simply a thing that would occur. This would be bad for me.
Free time is tight before and after shift so it's all about preparation. Clothes are out the night before, meals are prepped before work week starts etc. It's also important to have a short commute. I'm close and go home on lunch break for an hour to eat and walk the dog.
Some days are real busy but fly by fast. I'm super beat after those. Most I'm more "on call" and just fix problems as they come. I get to work on projects I want to in the down time, or even just chill knowing a big problem is around the corner. IDK hard to explain but it's worth it for the time off. I think my ideal would be for 10s every week.
Pretty standard for all systems IT
Im IT on call.
They call, and call, and call. I game and hike and sleep. Monday, I email them the part of my contract that says "best effort to respond after hours when available"
Turns out I'm rarely available.
True
That's def manufacturing in general, worked for a while in a flat roll steel mill originally in galvanizing and eventually some plant wide stuff. A new galv line is easily in that range (they'll go for the cheapest bid and then spend twice that remediating design/QC issues), large scale production isn't cheap!
Why not just have IT people on-site then?
My current employer I couldn't tell you why we don't have nightshift IT but the last place I was at we had 24hr coverage with me drawing the short straw weekend nights not much fun but the people made it chill