this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2024
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Europe

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[โ€“] hellothere@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

The fundamental problem with expulsion is that it changes the persecution narrative from being complete bullshit, to being arguable.

Hungarians need to sort Orban out, the exact same as the French with their fascists, and Germany, and Italy, and...need I go on?

There is no good play here, but it requires all Europeans to remember that we beat them before, and we sure as fuck will beat them again as long as people get involved.

[โ€“] Gsus4@programming.dev 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

They need some form of reciprocity: if you restrict these and these laws, we will restrict this and this influence in the block until you go back. e.g. you end independent media? We block you from owning any media in EU. You open the doors to visa-free russian citizens, lose access to Schengen. You take giant loans from China? Lose access to cohesion funds. You jerrymander your elections to the extreme? No votes in EU parliament/council for you...but proportional and reversible to provide an incentive to go back to normal at least a bit...obviously IANAL

PS: I mean, look at Ukraine: "you block our military aid? We block your gas."

[โ€“] hellothere@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Oh absolutely. I'm not saying that they should be allowed to do whatever and face no repercussions, just that the more severe they are, the more they can be weaponised by populists.

[โ€“] Gsus4@programming.dev 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

There was an article I can't find from a year or so ago where a few libertarians were arguing that Bexit instead of giving them more freedom, took away from it, because they realized that the EU tended to limited the power of national governments to go on populist rampages on the left or the right, because the EU institutions average and balance between interests. I think they are right and if the EU were to turns...uh...fascist...by then the well would already be poisoned in most countries anyway.

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