shapesandstuff

Ah must've been the ukrainians killing civillians on Ukrainian ground then DROP YOUR SOURCE.

You didnt present anything buddy. I read your link. It was inconsequential. Do you have anything that actually refute any of the facts? Lets just go for the civillian deaths, ignoring all and any speculative accusations. Just the hard numbers. Who killed them. How many?

The argument wasnt about which source you like. You just pivoted there for you have nothing relevant to add. Your first move was to deflect from the topic at hand to an argument about sources. Okay there are dozens of them, which ones do you allow for this discussion?

Okay, cool, news sites have conflicts of interest. Thats why you vet the ones that are mostly neutral DESPITE ties. Same applies to yours, but thats nothing you can even fucking fathom.

Stop deflecting. Stay on topic for just one comment.

Drop your sources on the civillian deaths or shut up and move on.

That's a great one!

Just wanna point out that in this initial reply to the comment tree, you did the exact same thing I just called you out on:
Misrepresenting (or to not assume malice, misREADING) another comment to then spin your entire narrative around that error.
They said:

Putin doesn’t mind how many Russians will die

You base your retort on:

If Putin doesn’t care how many Ukrainians die

"this already shows you are terrible at reading. How am I supposed to expect you to treat anything else I show you seriously when you cannot even read your own material?"

Righty, we're playign a game of semantics not content. Got it.
I wrote

totally reasonable in his target choices?

Any further specific claims came from you.

Further:

There’s of course a bunch of civilian massacres still under active investigation, plus a lot of varying numbers between UA officials and independent reports.

me acknowledging the unclear nature of war-time reports.
Again, the rest is you projecting a slightly different argument onto my words to give yourself an easier time filing me away as a "propaganda victim" or whatever.

First of all this statistic is of the total reports of civilian deaths on both sides in the war, this already shows you are terrible at reading

If I were to argue like you do, I'd now go off about how you claim ALL civilian casualties died at Ukrainian hands.
I don't do that though, instead I'd ask you to provide the detailed breakdown you seem to have you hands on.

You seem to also have missed this:

The figures exclude Crimea and Sevastopol due to the lack of corroborating information.

Meaning, your alleged genocide is not in this dataset.

And lastly, you're still not providing literally anything of substance yourself. You only tactic is discredit any potential source and ignore the ones you don't wanna engage with in advance so you can later claim "no that one doesn't count, I already said it's propaganda" while the only thing you're currently leaning on is an opinion piece from a heavily biased borderline conspiracy rag.

Either you engage with what I'm writing and work with the people you're talking to, or you keep arguing in bad faith. If you pick the latter, feel free, go off king, i'm not interested.

Rammstein is not a town though, Ramstein(-Miesenbach) is.

I think a good chunk of US american military folks are familiar with Ramstein air base, less so Ramstein-Miesenbach. Internationally I'd imagine even less of either.

Even plenty Rammstein (band) fans aren't familiar with the origin of the name, nor the town near the airbase :)

I'd comfortably take a bet that Wacken rings more bells around the globe.

White House narrative

Muricacentric much?

But first I want a source for your claim that Russia is indiscriminately bombing civilians.

Strawman, letsgooo.
Besides your random made up arguments, here are some numbers on civilian casualties:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/

There's of course a bunch of civilian massacres still under active investigation, plus a lot of varying numbers between UA officials and independent reports. Mostly it's just the precise numbers that are unclear, not the act itself. See:

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/a/515868.pdf https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/ukraine-deadly-mariupol-theatre-strike-a-clear-war-crime-by-russian-forces-new-investigation/ https://www.npr.org/2022/06/27/1107854331/russian-missile-strike-shopping-mall-kremenchuk

But of course these are all western propaganda, please enlighten me with your credible sources full of irrefutable proof that i'm entirely consumed by fake news.

surely you have a lot of irrefutable sources for your claims.
It's crazy how many people here are touting the widely disclaimed coup or genocide.
Like surely there's a lot of publicly accessible, independent data on all of that, right?
Surely there's a very good reason why Crimea was invaded in a cloak-and-dagger operation by unmarked soldiers while russia officially demented any accusations it's their troops? Surely.

"claim" is the key word in that sentence.

Ah so putin is the good guy whos checks notes liberating the ukraine and totally reasonable in his target choices?

It's been changed shortly after. Still pretty embarrassing.

Wacken, Germany.

Population: 2110

Home to one of the biggest metal festivals in the world with something between 70k and 120k people. I think Tickets are limited to 70k currently but the whole area is bascially transformed for a week